Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <sniip It’s the Direct Marketing Association, although I don’t have a link. In  general, there’s no way to force charities to stop soliciting by mail, email, or fax. Telling them to take you off their list for EVERYTHING   often works. From the AOL Marketing information site – for ALL garbage mail. Hope this helps! Patti Mail Preference Service For many people, advertising mail is informative and provides value, convenience and fun.  However, direct marketing companies recognize that some people do not like to receive advertising mail. If you want to reduce the amount of national advertising mail you receive at home, send your name and address to the Direct Marketing Association’s Mail Preference Service (MPS): DMA Mail Preference Service P.O. Box 643 Carmel, NY 10512 After a few months, the MPS will reduce the amount of advertising mail you receive.  You will continue to receive mail from companies with which you do business. Names remain part of the MPS for five years.  After five years, you will need to register with the MPS again. If you continue to receive unwanted mail after a few months, the Direct Marketing Association suggests that you write directly to the mailer to request that your name be removed from the mailer’s list. Telephone Preference Service If you want to reduce the amount of national advertising calls you receive at home, send your name, address, area code and telephone number to the Direct Marketing Association’s Telephone Preference Service (TPS): DMA Telephone Preference Service P.O. Box 1559 Carmel, NY 10512 After a few months, the TPS will reduce the amount of advertising calls you receive from national marketers such as credit card and magazine subscription companies.  Some local organizations and charities may not participate. Names remain part of the TPS for five years.  After five years, you will need to register with the TPS again. If you continue to receive unwanted phone calls after a few months, the Direct Marketing Association suggests that you request your name be removed from a company’s list when they call.

Thanks for the research. Also, there’s the US government list at the creative link of http://www.donotcall.gov.  As opposed to the Direct Marketing Association, the Federal Trade Commission, which runs this, knows there are technologies more advanced than snail mail. Incidentally, it’s worth browsing the consumer part of www.ftc.gov.   There are an amazing number of annoying things they have guides for handling, such as abusive bill collection, identity theft, and a range of scams.

Response:

All anyone needs to is take a look at all the mailing they’d get if they make even ONE donation to HSUS. I did a few years ago and now I get a torrent of requests for donations, accompanied by personalized return mail adhesive labels, calenders, picture albums, greeting cars, and other "novelties", speaking loud and clear about where donated money REALLY goes.

The American Cancer Society got our address somewhere, we suspect from someone in one of the support groups that we used to go to.  Now we get them pleading with us for money, when we often have to choose the bill to pay. Pam S. tired of the ACS

Response:

The American Cancer Society got our address somewhere, we suspect from someone in one of the support groups that we used to go to.  Now we get them pleading with us for money, when we often have to choose the bill to pay. Pam S. tired of the ACS

Wow. I didn’t realize *everybody* got all that junk. The weirdest one I get is from some bunch that wants money for some poor Indian reservation in New Mexico or Arizona or somewhere. Man. THEY are persistant. The maddest I got was when I got a "free" DVD, about whales or something from a wildlife group. It appears I was "enrolled" by this group, would receive one a month for $9.95. It really ragged me to have to package the stupid thing and send it back. Sherry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All anyone needs to is take a look at all the mailing they’d get if they make even ONE donation to HSUS. I did a few years ago and now I get a torrent of requests for donations, accompanied by personalized return mail adhesive labels, calenders, picture albums, greeting cars, and other "novelties", speaking loud and clear about where donated money REALLY goes. I get those things in the mail all the time, not just from the Humane Society but from other organizations to whom I’ve never donated a dime. You’re right; they are wasting donated funds (or grant money, wherever it may come from) which could be better spent on taking care of the cause for which they are soliciting.  I think I have enough free personalized mailing labels to last into the 22nd century. Jill

I finally got sick of all the "gifts" and such and emailed them a request to "please stop sending me stuff!".  They said they would stop all mailings with the exception of the yearly calendar.  I haven’t received anything since.  If you’re not a contributor, it probably won’t work. I also remember seeing something about getting on a "no junk mail" list, sort of like the "do not call" list.  I’ll have to try to find where I read about that.  Will let you all know when I find it — Elise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All anyone needs to is take a look at all the mailing they’d get if they make even ONE donation to HSUS. I did a few years ago and now I get a torrent of requests for donations, accompanied by personalized return mail adhesive labels, calenders, picture albums, greeting cars, and other "novelties", speaking loud and clear about where donated money REALLY goes. I get those things in the mail all the time, not just from the Humane Society but from other organizations to whom I’ve never donated a dime. You’re right; they are wasting donated funds (or grant money, wherever it may come from) which could be better spent on taking care of the cause for which they are soliciting.  I think I have enough free personalized mailing labels to last into the 22nd century. Jill I finally got sick of all the "gifts" and such and emailed them a request to "please stop sending me stuff!".  They said they would stop all mailings with the exception of the yearly calendar.  I haven’t received anything since.  If you’re not a contributor, it probably won’t work. I also remember seeing something about getting on a "no junk mail" list, sort of like the "do not call" list.  I’ll have to try to find where I read about that.  Will let you all know when I find it

It’s the Direct Marketing Association, although I don’t have a link. In general, there’s no way to force charities to stop soliciting by mail, email, or fax. Telling them to take you off their list for EVERYTHING often works.

Response:

<sniip It’s the Direct Marketing Association, although I don’t have a link. In  general, there’s no way to force charities to stop soliciting by mail, email, or fax. Telling them to take you off their list for EVERYTHING  often works. From the AOL Marketing information site – for ALL garbage mail. Hope this helps! Patti Mail Preference Service For many people, advertising mail is informative and provides value, convenience and fun.  However, direct marketing companies recognize that some people do not like to receive advertising mail. If you want to reduce the amount of national advertising mail you receive at home, send your name and address to the Direct Marketing Association’s Mail Preference Service (MPS): DMA Mail Preference Service P.O. Box 643 Carmel, NY 10512 After a few months, the MPS will reduce the amount of advertising mail you receive.  You will continue to receive mail from companies with which you do business. Names remain part of the MPS for five years.  After five years, you will need to register with the MPS again. If you continue to receive unwanted mail after a few months, the Direct Marketing Association suggests that you write directly to the mailer to request that your name be removed from the mailer’s list. Telephone Preference Service If you want to reduce the amount of national advertising calls you receive at home, send your name, address, area code and telephone number to the Direct Marketing Association’s Telephone Preference Service (TPS): DMA Telephone Preference Service P.O. Box 1559 Carmel, NY 10512 After a few months, the TPS will reduce the amount of advertising calls you receive from national marketers such as credit card and magazine subscription companies.  Some local organizations and charities may not participate. Names remain part of the TPS for five years.  After five years, you will need to register with the TPS again. If you continue to receive unwanted phone calls after a few months, the Direct Marketing Association suggests that you request your name be removed from a company’s list when they call.

Response:

Connecticut Humane Society? Picking up the mail today, I found a pink-hued solicitation letter for the Connecticut Humane Society’s Spring Fund Drive, reminding me to send a donation, assuring me that the animals they take in "are cared for in a kind and loving way". This after I had just finished a phone call from a friend consumed with grief.  She had recently brought two young, friendly cats to the Society’s Westport branch, certain they would be safe there.  She was stunned to find they had been put to death, along with over TWENTY other cats on Saturday, April 30, 2005. Why?  Because they had caught colds.  Not rabies, not distemper, not FIV or feline leukemia.  Just easily treated colds.  It was more convenient and less costly for the staff to kill the cats than administer antibiotics. The Connecticut Humane Society (CHS) is a privately run organization operating from its main headquarters in Newington.  They have 3 branches. The Westport branch IS NOT Westport Animal Control, as is commonly thought. The Westport town-run pound is located off of South Compo Road in a small, dilapidated cement block structure. The CHS permanently closed their Stamford branch several years ago without notice, leaving a huge void for homeless animals in that area.  They closed their Westport branch in 2003 for a year-long renovation, again with no notice or outreach to other shelters and rescue groups who were forced to absorb a staggering influx of unwanted animals during that time. The CHS is not obligated to report their euthanasia statistics to the State.  We have no idea how many cats and dogs are "humanely" put to death at their four locations annually, but they are NOT no-kill shelters for companion animals. As reported by Animal People, a watchdog publication for animal protection charities, the CHS had $61 million of discretionary income at its disposal and another $14 million in investments held by others, yet only spent $3.7 million on programs and overhead in 2000.  www.guidestar.org, the national database for nonprofit organizations, has the CHS’ 2003 IRS form 990 which shows little change from 2000.  The Wise Giving Alliance (www.give.org) suggests a standard of not accumulating unrestricted net assets more than three times the size of the current year’s budget. The P.S. at the bottom of the solicitation letter I received, signed by CHS President Richard Johnston read, "With your help we will provide the security of a warm place to sleep, food for the starving, and medical attention if necessary".  If my money is not being used for antibiotics, I certainly don’t want it being used to purchase sodium pentobarbitone to kill the animals in their purported care.  On April 30th they strayed far from their Mission Statement of "promoting humanity and kindness". Marketing themselves as something they aren’t is an injustice not only to the Mission they are legally obligated to operate under, but to the thousands of dogs and cats in our community. You can order a subscription to Animal People’s annual "Watchdog Report" which lists the financials of over 100 animal charities by going to www.animalpeoplenews.org/watchdog_report.html Be informed, know where your money goes.  I know mine will no longer go to the Connecticut Humane Society. Karen Rasmussen Wilton, CT

Response:

Connecticut Humane Society? Picking up the mail today, I found a pink-hued solicitation letter for the Connecticut Humane Society’s Spring Fund Drive, reminding me to send a donation, assuring me that the animals they take in "are cared for in a kind and loving way". This after I had just finished a phone call from a friend consumed with grief.  She had recently brought two young, friendly cats to the Society’s Westport branch, certain they would be safe there.  She was stunned to find they had been put to death, along with over TWENTY other cats on Saturday, April 30, 2005. Why?  Because they had caught colds.

You need to write this to the perpetrators of the crime.  And yes, I think it’s a crime they killed those cats. Jill

Response:

Connecticut Humane Society? Picking up the mail today, I found a pink-hued solicitation letter for the Connecticut Humane Society’s Spring Fund Drive, reminding me to send a donation, assuring me that the animals they take in "are cared for in a kind and loving way".

<snip It sucks, but this is what is commonly done at open admission shelters.  I volunteer at a limited admission shelter, so no, we don’t put animals down for having a cold, but we do have to turn away new intakes if we are full. Although, it is our policy to take in strays ASAP.  If we are full, the strays usually have to stay in the animal control pound until there is room. Before I started getting into volunteering and cat rescue, I went to the MSPCA to adopt a cat.  It was really busy, and I wasn’t ready to take a cat home that day.  I saw a cute buff colored one year old girl named Sandy.  I wasn’t even thinking that she could be put down.  I decided to come back another day, and if she was not adopted, I would adopt her.  When I came back, I didn’t see her so I asked if she was adopted.  They told me no, she caught a URI, they had no foster homes, so they had to put her down.  I was horrified, and I felt, and still do feel guilty. -Kelly

Response:

Why?  Because they had caught colds.  Not rabies, not distemper, not FIV or feline leukemia.  Just easily treated colds.  It was more convenient and less costly for the staff to kill the cats than administer antibiotics.

Whoa. Wait a minute. How familiar are you with the facility? What is their capacity for cats, and how many cats did they have at that time? NO shelter thinks it is "convenient" to kill cats. They hate euthanizing animals. And believe me, antibiotic is much cheaper to administer than sodium pentabarbitol. I can’t say for sure, but possibly the shelter was absolutely full past capacity, and they had to make room. Of course it is horrible to euthanize pets with a treatable illness, but if it’s a choice between the healthy kittens & cats, and the ones ill with URIs, it’s the only choice they have. If you are absolutely sure of the facts, and you KNOW this shelter is killing animals for "convenience" and because they simply don’t want to bother with them, you are well justified in your post. But please, be SURE before you slander them like that. A humane society’s best asset is its reputation. We survive on the generosity of donors. Once that reputation is tainted, or damaged, the donations will stop coming. And when that happens, my friend, the animals are the ones who suffer. Just be sure you’ve got your facts straight. Ask for a tour of the shelter–see for yourself how overcrowded (nor not) they are. Ask for their euthanasia records. (Most shelters will share them). Please don’t be a part of that unless you have solid, first-hand information and have looked into it yourself. Sherry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Connecticut Humane Society? Picking up the mail today, I found a pink-hued solicitation letter for the Connecticut Humane Society’s Spring Fund Drive, reminding me to send a donation, assuring me that the animals they take in "are cared for in a kind and loving way". This after I had just finished a phone call from a friend consumed with grief.  She had recently brought two young, friendly cats to the Society’s Westport branch, certain they would be safe there. She was stunned to find they had been put to death, along with over TWENTY other cats on Saturday,  April 30, 2005. Why?  Because they had caught colds. This is not a troll. I live in CT and volunteer for Friends of Felines in Stamford, CT. www.adoptapet.org All the no-kill rescue groups in CT after been after the CT Humane Society for a long time. The CT Humane Society considers any animal over a year old unadoptable and disposable.  This group also has alot of $$$$$. This woman is obviously irate as are all the no-kill rescue groups in CT who so desparately need money to run their small no-kill groups. Meanwhile, ignorant people are swayed by the constant pleas for money by the CT Humane Society’s propaganda. Sticky Buds All anyone needs to is take a look at all the mailing they’d get if they make even ONE donation to HSUS. I did a few years ago and now I get a torrent of requests for donations, accompanied by personalized return mail adhesive labels, calenders, picture albums, greeting cars, and other "novelties", speaking loud and clear about where donated money REALLY goes.

I get those things in the mail all the time, not just from the Humane Society but from other organizations to whom I’ve never donated a dime. You’re right; they are wasting donated funds (or grant money, wherever it may come from) which could be better spent on taking care of the cause for which they are soliciting.  I think I have enough free personalized mailing labels to last into the 22nd century. Jill

Response:

Question:

A co-worker sent this to me today: Cat Lover or Not, this is hysterical!  We’ve all had trouble with our animals, but I don’t think anyone can top this one:  Calling in sick to work makes me uncomfortable.  No matter how legitimate my excuse, I always get the feeling that my boss thinks I’m lying.  On one recent occasion, I had a valid reason but lied anyway, because the truth was just too darned humiliating.  I simply mentioned that I had sustained a head injury, and I hoped I would feel up to coming in the next day.  By then, I reasoned, I could think up a doozy to explain the bandage on the top of my head.  The accident occurred mainly because I had given in to my wife’s wishes to adopt a cute little kitty. Initially, the new acquisition was no problem.  Then one morning, I was taking my shower after breakfast when I heard my wife, Deb, call out to me from the kitchen. "Honey!  The garbage disposal is dead again.  Please come reset it." "You know where the button is," I protested through the shower pitter-patter and steam.  "Reset it yourself!"  "But I’m scared!" she persisted.  "What if it starts going and sucks me in?"  There was a meaningful pause and then, "C’mon, it’ll only take you a second."  So out I came, dripping wet and butt naked, hoping that my silent  outraged nudity would make a statement about how I perceived her behavior  as extremely cowardly.  Sighing loudly, I squatted down and stuck my head under the sink to find  the button.  It is the last action I remember performing. It struck  without warning, and without any respect to my circumstances.  No, it wasn’t the hexed disposal, drawing me into its gnashing metal  teeth. It was our new kitty, who discovered the fascinating dangling  objects she spied hanging between my legs.  She had been poised around  the corner and stalked me as I reached under the sink.  And, at the  precise moment when I was most vulnerable, she leapt at the toys I  unwittingly offered and snagged them with her needle-like claws.  I lost all rational thought to control orderly bodily movements, blindly  rising at a violent rate of speed, with the full weight of a kitten  hanging from my masculine region.  Wild animals are sometimes faced with a "fight or flight" syndrome.Men,  in this predicament, choose only the "flight" option.  I know this from experience.  I was fleeing straight up into the air when  the sink and cabinet bluntly and forcefully impeded my ascent.  The  impact knocked me out cold.  When I awoke, my wife and the paramedics stood over me.  Now there are  not many things in this life worse than finding oneself lying on the  kitchen floor butt naked in front of a group of "been-there, done-that"  paramedics.  Even worse, having been fully briefed by my wife, the  paramedics were all snorting loudly as they tried to conduct their work,  all the while trying to suppress their hysterical laughter……and not  succeeding.  Somehow I lived through it all.  A few days later I finally made it back  into the office, where colleagues tried to coax an explanation out of me  about my head injury.  I kept silent, claiming it was too painful to talk  about, which it was. "What’s the matter?" They all asked, "Cat got your tongue?"  If they only knew! Why is it that only the women laugh at this? — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

LOL!!!  Thanks Jim.  That was a good one.  :-) Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A co-worker sent this to me today: Cat Lover or Not, this is hysterical!  We’ve all had trouble with our animals, but I don’t think anyone can top this one:  Calling in sick to work makes me uncomfortable.  No matter how legitimate my excuse, I always get the feeling that my boss thinks I’m lying.  On one recent occasion, I had a valid reason but lied anyway, because the truth was just too darned humiliating.  I simply mentioned that I had sustained a head injury, and I hoped I would feel up to coming in the next day.  By then, I reasoned, I could think up a doozy to explain the bandage on the top of my head.  The accident occurred mainly because I had given in to my wife’s wishes to adopt a cute little kitty. Initially, the new acquisition was no problem.  Then one morning, I was taking my shower after breakfast when I heard my wife, Deb, call out to me from the kitchen. "Honey!  The garbage disposal is dead again.  Please come reset it." "You know where the button is," I protested through the shower pitter-patter and steam.  "Reset it yourself!"  "But I’m scared!" she persisted.  "What if it starts going and sucks me in?"  There was a meaningful pause and then, "C’mon, it’ll only take you a second."  So out I came, dripping wet and butt naked, hoping that my silent  outraged nudity would make a statement about how I perceived her behavior  as extremely cowardly.  Sighing loudly, I squatted down and stuck my head under the sink to find  the button.  It is the last action I remember performing. It struck  without warning, and without any respect to my circumstances.  No, it wasn’t the hexed disposal, drawing me into its gnashing metal  teeth. It was our new kitty, who discovered the fascinating dangling  objects she spied hanging between my legs.  She had been poised around  the corner and stalked me as I reached under the sink.  And, at the  precise moment when I was most vulnerable, she leapt at the toys I  unwittingly offered and snagged them with her needle-like claws.  I lost all rational thought to control orderly bodily movements, blindly  rising at a violent rate of speed, with the full weight of a kitten  hanging from my masculine region.  Wild animals are sometimes faced with a "fight or flight" syndrome.Men,  in this predicament, choose only the "flight" option.  I know this from experience.  I was fleeing straight up into the air when  the sink and cabinet bluntly and forcefully impeded my ascent.  The  impact knocked me out cold.  When I awoke, my wife and the paramedics stood over me.  Now there are  not many things in this life worse than finding oneself lying on the  kitchen floor butt naked in front of a group of "been-there, done-that"  paramedics.  Even worse, having been fully briefed by my wife, the  paramedics were all snorting loudly as they tried to conduct their work,  all the while trying to suppress their hysterical laughter……and not  succeeding.  Somehow I lived through it all.  A few days later I finally made it back  into the office, where colleagues tried to coax an explanation out of me  about my head injury.  I kept silent, claiming it was too painful to talk  about, which it was. "What’s the matter?" They all asked, "Cat got your tongue?"  If they only knew! Why is it that only the women laugh at this?

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

LOL! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A co-worker sent this to me today: Cat Lover or Not, this is hysterical!  We’ve all had trouble with our animals, but I don’t think anyone can top this one:  Calling in sick to work makes me uncomfortable.  No matter how legitimate my excuse, I always get the feeling that my boss thinks I’m lying.  On one recent occasion, I had a valid reason but lied anyway, because the truth was just too darned humiliating.  I simply mentioned that I had sustained a head injury, and I hoped I would feel up to coming in the next day.  By then, I reasoned, I could think up a doozy to explain the bandage on the top of my head.  The accident occurred mainly because I had given in to my wife’s wishes to adopt a cute little kitty. Initially, the new acquisition was no problem.  Then one morning, I was taking my shower after breakfast when I heard my wife, Deb, call out to me from the kitchen. "Honey!  The garbage disposal is dead again.  Please come reset it." "You know where the button is," I protested through the shower pitter-patter and steam.  "Reset it yourself!"  "But I’m scared!" she persisted.  "What if it starts going and sucks me in?"  There was a meaningful pause and then, "C’mon, it’ll only take you a second."  So out I came, dripping wet and butt naked, hoping that my silent  outraged nudity would make a statement about how I perceived her behavior  as extremely cowardly.  Sighing loudly, I squatted down and stuck my head under the sink to find  the button.  It is the last action I remember performing. It struck  without warning, and without any respect to my circumstances.  No, it wasn’t the hexed disposal, drawing me into its gnashing metal  teeth. It was our new kitty, who discovered the fascinating dangling  objects she spied hanging between my legs.  She had been poised around  the corner and stalked me as I reached under the sink.  And, at the  precise moment when I was most vulnerable, she leapt at the toys I  unwittingly offered and snagged them with her needle-like claws.  I lost all rational thought to control orderly bodily movements, blindly  rising at a violent rate of speed, with the full weight of a kitten  hanging from my masculine region.  Wild animals are sometimes faced with a "fight or flight" syndrome.Men,  in this predicament, choose only the "flight" option.  I know this from experience.  I was fleeing straight up into the air when  the sink and cabinet bluntly and forcefully impeded my ascent.  The  impact knocked me out cold.  When I awoke, my wife and the paramedics stood over me.  Now there are  not many things in this life worse than finding oneself lying on the  kitchen floor butt naked in front of a group of "been-there, done-that"  paramedics.  Even worse, having been fully briefed by my wife, the  paramedics were all snorting loudly as they tried to conduct their work,  all the while trying to suppress their hysterical laughter……and not  succeeding.  Somehow I lived through it all.  A few days later I finally made it back  into the office, where colleagues tried to coax an explanation out of me  about my head injury.  I kept silent, claiming it was too painful to talk  about, which it was. "What’s the matter?" They all asked, "Cat got your tongue?"  If they only knew! Why is it that only the women laugh at this? — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

A co-worker sent this to me today: [snipped]

   LOL.    My cat likes to bat at dangling objects.    One night, I woke up, and wandered out to the toilet. As I was passing the kitchen chairs, a black and white streak launched itself off one of the chairs. I don’t think I’ve ever moved so fast in my life, as my hand intercepted her claws only inches away from those dangling objects. My wife thinks it’s hilarious. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ec… — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’e in my state of Australia, we’ve had some major political upheavels (with our oppositionl eader resigning hten trying to commit suicide) which has had the headlines. But the news of just how bad it is in NO i sjust getting through, and I suspect it will be the top story tonight. On the radio onthe way home, I think I burst into tears at least 3 times listening to the voices of people begging for help, begging to have their sons and daughters returned safely to them, saying "i don’t want to die like this". People wondering why on earth the promised help hasn’t arrived, wondering why the law/,ilitary seems more interested in stopping people breaking into shops for food & water than rescuing the people who need rescuing. Its heartbreaking. There’s also news of looting for goods and valuables (looting for food and water is entirely understandable, iMHO), people having gunfights, shooting and threatening rescue workers. And people being raped and/or murdered inthe superdome. It moves me to tears The tragedy in NO still doesn’t compare in magnitude to the tsunami, in terms of death or destruction. Whilst the tsunami didn’t strike densely populated cities, it did kill alot more people and destroy a much larger area overall. The tsunami victims also had *no* warning. The grossly unfair thing about the victims of Katrina is that because there *was* warning,t hose with access to transport and had a place to go could get out, but those without access to transport had no choice but to stay and suffer the consequences. Purrs to all of them, Yowie

I have been watching the TV a lot the last few days, in tears much of the time.  It is unbelieveably sad to see the horror of this catastrophe.  I can’t even think about how many animals were lost, or *I* would lose it.  And the horror of those who have died and are still laying where they died is unimaginable.  Not to mention the horrendous conditions these people are living in. Some news pundit pointed out that it is the poor most affected by this.  They have no insurance, they had no transportation to get out of the area.  They are the ones suffering the most. My heart goes out to everyone affected. Ginger-lyn Home Pages:   http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/   http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats)   http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy)   http://www.movieanimals.bravehost.com/ (The Violence Against                                              Animals in Movies Website)

Response:

A good place to look for ways to help is http://www.fema.gov/ THey have a good website. Jane – owned and operated by Princess Rita

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It moves me to tears The tragedy in NO still doesn’t compare in magnitude to the tsunami, in terms of death or destruction. Whilst the tsunami didn’t strike densely populated cities, it did kill alot more people and destroy a much larger area overall. The tsunami victims also had *no* warning. The grossly unfair thing about the victims of Katrina is that because there *was* warning,t hose with access to transport and had a place to go could get out, but those without access to transport had no choice but to stay and suffer the consequences. Purrs to all of them, Yowie As usual, I agree with Yowie. I can’t bear to watch the news now, it’s so frustrating to see the strong and violent ride roughshod over the weak. Where are the signs of organisation from the bottom up? Aid workers are saying that they can’t get in because the roads are covered in rubble, but there are thousands of healthy people in the city sitting around waiting to be rescued, they could be clearing the roads, surely? It’s absolutely criminal that no transport out of the city was arranged for the poor and the weak, and somebody should be made to answer for it, I’m furious about this, it’s a human disaster that could have been so easily avoided. Jeanette

Absolutely, Jeanette. This was the single most disgusting aspect of the entire situation IMO. This was not a situation that was unforseen. It was an eventuality in N.O. However, Louisiana has long been known (I mean LONG) for a very decrepit and even corrupt government. One can see that provisions were never even thought of for evacuating the poor. I can only hope that every state and city in the nation is re-evaluation their emergency management systems. It’s very frightening actually. I can definitely understand that logistics are difficult because of the vast area involved. However, I cannot understand why it took FIVE days to get National Guard in with supplys and amphibious vehicles. I just don’t get it.

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On 2005-09-02, Yowie9644 penned: Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

I read that some countries are donating directly to the Red Cross … maybe you can too? — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Posted by a friend on another group.  I only wish I could do so I am on a quick lunch break where I am doing a training for the Red Cross (a little odd since I have never worked for the red cross and don’t really know their program but I am a  trainer and training is a process) The Red Cross is doing accelerated trainings right now if any of you have ever thought of doing what is usually a 6 week program, this might be a good time to take this volunteer training. I signed up on craigslist last night to adopt a family from new Orleans and got a call at 7:00 this morning from a couple with a baby who evacuated to Texas.  One of them used to live in SF.  I talked to them for a while and I think they are my family so while I am saddened beyond belief by their plight, I am also a little excited that I found a family so quickly. This just to give some idea of possibilities.

Thank you Jo. I am sad to say that after the events of today, I’m staying in. There was a rumor about gas stations closing early today due to shortages, and I didn’t even hear about that until I went out to fill my tank before prices went up. The station close to me had gone up by .50c since yesterday, there were long lines, and people were yelling at each other. I never filled up, and driving home I was just scared by the way people were acting. I’m staying in. I’m skipping a party tomorrow, and I’m afraid I’m not going to go volunteer. People are just going insane right now.   — Cheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." – W.C. Fields

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie Not international but if anyone has a spare room (or rental property, etc.) they could let people stay in, they are in desperate need of temp housing – it doesn’t even have to be in the NO area, although those within 300 miles of NO are needed most. http://www.hurricanehousing.org

I had to smile at some of these listings. It’s a real slice of life–they run the gamit from "No Pets" to "Must Love Cats" to "Prefer Goth-Friendly People." Looks like something for everyone. It’s kind of touching, too that regular people are opening their homes to strangers and not expecting anything in return. Sherry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, Yowie.  There must be a way for overseas folks to donate to the American Red Cross.  Their web site is http://www.redcross.org/ — I think you can donate online with a credit card. How does the news coverage there compare with the coverage of the tsunami last year?  The latest news here is that they’ve had to curtail rescue operations due to the danger from looters and other criminals.  There have been reports of shootings, rapes, and more in some of the places where a lot of the refugees are staying.  It’s a sad commentary on human nature. Ambulances have been carjacked, evacuation convoys have been turned back trying to get to Tulane and Charity Hospitals, and there has been firing on rescue helicopters. This information comes from trauma surgeons directly involved in the rescue efforts.

I just can’t understand that sort of behavior.  I can understand people breaking into stores to get food and water, but the rest of it is beyond my comprehension.  It is so unfair, as it’s hurting other people who are suffering and the people who are trying to help. Joy

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I had to smile at some of these listings. It’s a real slice of life–they run the gamit from "No Pets" to "Must Love Cats" to "Prefer Goth-Friendly People." Looks like something for everyone. It’s kind of touching, too that regular people are opening their homes to strangers and not expecting anything in return. Sherry

I was touched by how many gay and lesbian couples in Portland have listed their homes.  Speaks volumes about that subsection of our population. -L.

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Thanks, Yowie.  There must be a way for overseas folks to donate to the American Red Cross.  Their web site is http://www.redcross.org/ — I think you can donate online with a credit card. How does the news coverage there compare with the coverage of the tsunami last year?  The latest news here is that they’ve had to curtail rescue operations due to the danger from looters and other criminals.  There have been reports of shootings, rapes, and more in some of the places where a lot of the refugees are staying.  It’s a sad commentary on human nature.

Here’e in my state of Australia, we’ve had some major political upheavels (with our oppositionl eader resigning hten trying to commit suicide) which has had the headlines. But the news of just how bad it is in NO i sjust getting through, and I suspect it will be the top story tonight. On the radio onthe way home, I think I burst into tears at least 3 times listening to the voices of people begging for help, begging to have their sons and daughters returned safely to them, saying "i don’t want to die like this". People wondering why on earth the promised help hasn’t arrived, wondering why the law/,ilitary seems more interested in stopping people breaking into shops for food & water than rescuing the people who need rescuing. Its heartbreaking. There’s also news of looting for goods and valuables (looting for food and water is entirely understandable, iMHO), people having gunfights, shooting and threatening rescue workers. And people being raped and/or murdered inthe superdome. It moves me to tears The tragedy in NO still doesn’t compare in magnitude to the tsunami, in terms of death or destruction. Whilst the tsunami didn’t strike densely populated cities, it did kill alot more people and destroy a much larger area overall. The tsunami victims also had *no* warning. The grossly unfair thing about the victims of Katrina is that because there *was* warning,t hose with access to transport and had a place to go could get out, but those without access to transport had no choice but to stay and suffer the consequences. Purrs to all of them, Yowie

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Not international but if anyone has a spare room (or rental property, etc.) they could let people stay in, they are in desperate need of temp housing – it doesn’t even have to be in the NO area, although those within 300 miles of NO are needed most.

Not within 300 miles, but the city of Lawrence, Ks is trying to adopt a family.  They are hoping to provide housing, jobs, and schools for as long as needed.   Thought I’d spread the word as other cities might follow. http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/sep/02/lawrence_adopt_family_hurric… L.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It moves me to tears The tragedy in NO still doesn’t compare in magnitude to the tsunami, in terms of death or destruction. Whilst the tsunami didn’t strike densely populated cities, it did kill alot more people and destroy a much larger area overall. The tsunami victims also had *no* warning. The grossly unfair thing about the victims of Katrina is that because there *was* warning,t hose with access to transport and had a place to go could get out, but those without access to transport had no choice but to stay and suffer the consequences. Purrs to all of them, Yowie

As usual, I agree with Yowie. I can’t bear to watch the news now, it’s so frustrating to see the strong and violent ride roughshod over the weak. Where are the signs of organisation from the bottom up? Aid workers are saying that they can’t get in because the roads are covered in rubble, but there are thousands of healthy people in the city sitting around waiting to be rescued, they could be clearing the roads, surely? It’s absolutely criminal that no transport out of the city was arranged for the poor and the weak, and somebody should be made to answer for it, I’m furious about this, it’s a human disaster that could have been so easily avoided. Jeanette

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Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

Not international but if anyone has a spare room (or rental property, etc.) they could let people stay in, they are in desperate need of temp housing – it doesn’t even have to be in the NO area, although those within 300 miles of NO are needed most. http://www.hurricanehousing.org You can search by zip code and list your available space.  Please send this info to anyone who might be able to help. -L.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, Yowie.  There must be a way for overseas folks to donate to the American Red Cross.  Their web site is http://www.redcross.org/ — I think you can donate online with a credit card. How does the news coverage there compare with the coverage of the tsunami last year?  The latest news here is that they’ve had to curtail rescue operations due to the danger from looters and other criminals.  There have been reports of shootings, rapes, and more in some of the places where a lot of the refugees are staying.  It’s a sad commentary on human nature. Well, of course the tsunami attacked a less densely populated area.  New Orleans is a very large city, with all kinds of people living there – good and bad, law-abiding and violent – it’s unfortunate that the violent behaviour is what makes headlines.  I’m sure when it’s all over, we’ll hear plenty of tales of selfless heroism, too.

It’s a cesspool of public and private corruption.  People are conditioned to exploit whatever cracks appear in the system.   They need to get some Yankee soldiers in there with APCs and armored helicopters. Charlie

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Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

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www.americanhumane.org I think they take PayPal.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

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Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations?

Most organizations will take credit cards. We’ve donated to the Humane Society of the United States (http://hsus.org/) and the Red Cross (http://www.redcross.org/). — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

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Thanks, Yowie.  There must be a way for overseas folks to donate to the American Red Cross.  Their web site is http://www.redcross.org/ — I think you can donate online with a credit card. How does the news coverage there compare with the coverage of the tsunami last year?  The latest news here is that they’ve had to curtail rescue operations due to the danger from looters and other criminals.  There have been reports of shootings, rapes, and more in some of the places where a lot of the refugees are staying.  It’s a sad commentary on human nature. Sandy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

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Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

The Humane Society of Untied States https://secure.hsus.org/01/katrina_relief Amercan Red Cross http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate2/ American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals https://secure2.convio.net/aspca/site/Donation?ACTION=SHOW_DONATION_O… Salvation Army National HQ http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/USNSAHome.htm (this gives a list of online donation sites, but all are fairly slow) There are more, but these are the main four. From what I could tell, all have a drop down box where you can change your country, and all seem to take most major credit cards (Visa, MC & Discover).

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Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough.

The American Red Cross can take your donation (http://www.redcross.org). You click the donation icon on their homepage. That takes you to their Gift Selection page (they call donations "gifts"), where you can choose 4 different ARC funds to send your online donation to. If you don’t want to make an online donation, their gift page also has information about how to make your donation in other ways. Regarding international donations, their gift FAQ says: Q: I live outside the U.S. Is this why I’m having trouble making a donation? A: Donors from outside the U.S. can make a gift as long as their credit card is supported by a U.S. based card company. Our online donation system is designed to protect donor security and privacy, and prevent illicit use by frauders. If your credit card is non-US based, you can still mail in your gift by check using our Mail In Form. Jeanne Hedge, as directed by Natasha http://www.jhedge.com

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rec.pets.cats.anecdotes Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

Part of the problem is getting in touch with even the charities. I’m off from work until Wednesday, and while I was planning for some R&R, I want to spend some time volunteering. I heard that the Red Cross needs help with a lot of tasks like answering phones (I’d have a hard time with that one unless its fielding questions like how to donate, but if someone is looking for someone I’d likely have a hard time with that), opening mail that contains checks for donations, probably processing email contributions and CC contributions done over the web, stuff like that. But I am having a hard time on their web site. The volunteer page keeps timing out, and one page says you have to attend an orientation before you can volunteer and the first one anywhere in my area is Sept 6. I’d think they have some sort of emergency fast-response type of orientation, but I don’t see any reference to something like that on any of their sites, both local and national. I’ll call tomorrow. As for who to donate to, Catholic Charities <http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/ is rated as high for the majority of donations going to the intended victims rather than to overhead.  For animals, Noah’s Wish. <www.noahswish.com  I don’t know anything about international donations, but when the Asian tsunami hit, charities here didn’t have any problems (that I’m aware of!) getting money there. I know it took a while to get actual help there, too. It’s all just so sad and so desperate. People are dying while others decide what to do. I don’t get it. If the media can get in there and report on the conditions, even *right from* the Superdome, why can’t help????  :( — Cheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." – W.C. Fields

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Thanks, Yowie.  There must be a way for overseas folks to donate to the American Red Cross.  Their web site is http://www.redcross.org/ — I think you can donate online with a credit card. How does the news coverage there compare with the coverage of the tsunami last year?  The latest news here is that they’ve had to curtail rescue operations due to the danger from looters and other criminals.  There have been reports of shootings, rapes, and more in some of the places where a lot of the refugees are staying.  It’s a sad commentary on human nature.

Ambulances have been carjacked, evacuation convoys have been turned back trying to get to Tulane and Charity Hospitals, and there has been firing on rescue helicopters. This information comes from trauma surgeons directly involved in the rescue efforts.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Part of the problem is getting in touch with even the charities. I’m off from work until Wednesday, and while I was planning for some R&R, I want to spend some time volunteering. I heard that the Red Cross needs help with a lot of tasks like answering phones (I’d have a hard time with that one unless its fielding questions like how to donate, but if someone is looking for someone I’d likely have a hard time with that), opening mail that contains checks for donations, probably processing email contributions and CC contributions done over the web, stuff like that. But I am having a hard time on their web site. The volunteer page keeps timing out, and one page says you have to attend an orientation before you can volunteer and the first one anywhere in my area is Sept 6. I’d think they have some sort of emergency fast-response type of orientation, but I don’t see any reference to something like that on any of their sites, both local and national. I’ll call tomorrow.

(Posted by a friend on another group.  I only wish I could do so much) I am on a quick lunch break where I am doing a training for the Red Cross (a little odd since I have never worked for the red cross and don’t really know their program but I am a  trainer and training is a process) The Red Cross is doing accelerated trainings right now if any of you have ever thought of doing what is usually a 6 week program, this might be a good time to take this volunteer training. I signed up on craigslist last night to adopt a family from new Orleans and got a call at 7:00 this morning from a couple with a baby who evacuated to Texas.  One of them used to live in SF.  I talked to them for a while and I think they are my family so while I am saddened beyond belief by their plight, I am also a little excited that I found a family so quickly. This just to give some idea of possibilities. Jo

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Thanks, Yowie.  There must be a way for overseas folks to donate to the American Red Cross.  Their web site is http://www.redcross.org/ — I think you can donate online with a credit card. How does the news coverage there compare with the coverage of the tsunami last year?  The latest news here is that they’ve had to curtail rescue operations due to the danger from looters and other criminals.  There have been reports of shootings, rapes, and more in some of the places where a lot of the refugees are staying.  It’s a sad commentary on human nature. Sandy

Tennessee is sending National Guard troops down there to help curtail the looting, among other things.  It is indeed a sad commentary. Gang members have been reportedly shooting at rescue helicopters (I guess they think it’s the cops).  Hospitals have been looted for narcotics.  I saw a video clip of someone pushing a cart filled with jewelry cases, another with boom-boxes and televisions.  Give me a break, *those* are the people who should have washed away with the rising tide. Jill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations? Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

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Any of you folks know if there any charities that are helping out the victims of Katrina (human or animal) that are accepting international donations?

I’m sure the International Red Cross would funnel specific donations to the proper destination. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Purring & praying just doesn’t seem enough. Yowie

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Thanks, Yowie.  There must be a way for overseas folks to donate to the American Red Cross.  Their web site is http://www.redcross.org/ — I think you can donate online with a credit card. How does the news coverage there compare with the coverage of the tsunami last year?  The latest news here is that they’ve had to curtail rescue operations due to the danger from looters and other criminals.  There have been reports of shootings, rapes, and more in some of the places where a lot of the refugees are staying.  It’s a sad commentary on human nature.

Well, of course the tsunami attacked a less densely populated area.  New Orleans is a very large city, with all kinds of people living there – good and bad, law-abiding and violent – it’s unfortunate that the violent behaviour is what makes headlines.  I’m sure when it’s all over, we’ll hear plenty of tales of selfless heroism, too.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder

My friend, Bubba, http://www.sonic.net/~claudel/bubba/bubba.html absolutely refuses to go outside. If I leave the door open he will go to it and look out, but won’t step thru unless I’m right there and coax him to do so. I think that the last time he was outside he has at least one bad experience resulting in him winding up in the pound, where he found me. The other day I left the door open and one of the neighbor’s tiny kittens came inside. When Bubba saw it he went over to check it out and it arched and hissed at him. Bubba ran off and hid behind the couch for awhile. All 20Lbs of him afraid of a little black kitten 1/10 his size… He’s not at all skittish with people though. He’s very outgoing and friendly. I think he believes that he’s a human or something. Claude

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t have an indoor/outdoor cat without infesting your house with fleas, mites and ticks or whatever.  I just don’t see the point. kili While my cats stay in, for their safety and wellbeing, the above comment is absurd.  Dogs go out every day and don’t infest houses with fleas, mites and ticks, and cats are no different. My cats  can go on the deck or patio with us, but never unattended outside, and I don’t trust the dog behind me not to come over the fence at them, so close to the house or not at all.  Skipjack say not at all – he will stay in an open doorway. As far as cultural differences, the US is a very different place from many other countries.  The population (human, feline,, canine, wild animals) just can’t be compared, nor that vicious beast, the automobile.

Ha!  I’ve had dogs before that were indoor/outdoor dogs.  I’m sorry, Frontline doesn’t cut it.  I gave my dog frontline 2 times a month and I’d still pick about 200 ticks off of him and he was infested with fleas.  I gave him baths weekly.  The products don’t work.  Try to live on Maui and see if you don’t have the same results. kili

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I’m in the UK and my cat is mostly an indoor cat. She is a rescue cat and was extremely nervous of everything when I first got her. She also has health problems which mean ongoing medication. However – we let her out in the back garden when we are at home, or sitting out there ourselves and she loves it. She mostly sits around out there with us, or sits sniffing the catmint! But she’s never left alone out there or let out at night etc…. It seems a compromise which she is happy with. chas

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t have an indoor/outdoor cat without infesting your house with fleas, mites and ticks or whatever.  I just don’t see the point. kili While my cats stay in, for their safety and wellbeing, the above comment is absurd.  Dogs go out every day and don’t infest houses with fleas, mites and ticks, and cats are no different. My cats  can go on the deck or patio with us, but never unattended outside, and I don’t trust the dog behind me not to come over the fence at them, so close to the house or not at all.  Skipjack say not at all – he will stay in an open doorway. As far as cultural differences, the US is a very different place from many other countries.  The population (human, feline,, canine, wild animals) just can’t be compared, nor that vicious beast, the automobile. Ha!  I’ve had dogs before that were indoor/outdoor dogs.  I’m sorry, Frontline doesn’t cut it.  I gave my dog frontline 2 times a month and I’d still pick about 200 ticks off of him and he was infested with fleas.  I gave him baths weekly.  The products don’t work.  Try to live on Maui and see if you don’t have the same results. kili

kili, dear… do yourself (and rpca) a favour and cut out the cross posting when you reply.  There are some real fanatics on h+b who like to lord it over everyone, them being "experts" (ha!) Needless to say, you are correct.  I don’t know about other folks, but my dog – Sampson (RB) – was an indoor dog; he only went out to use the potty. Jill

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Ha!  I’ve had dogs before that were indoor/outdoor dogs.  I’m sorry, Frontline doesn’t cut it.  I gave my dog frontline 2 times a month and I’d still pick about 200 ticks off of him and he was infested with fleas.  I gave him baths weekly.  The products don’t work.  Try to live on Maui and see if you don’t have the same results.

well, ALL dogs are indoor/outdoor unles you litter train them!  And of course, dogs are social beings, and keeping them enclosed in a house 24/7 would not be healthy for their behavior.   My dogs don’t live outdoors, they live in the house.  They spend varying periods of time outside with me though, and I do not use any flea/tick preventative products.  I’m a big believer that healthy pets don’t tend to attract pests much.   I live in a climate where the summers are hot and sticky and humid. Mosquitos never actually die here, nor do fleas.  I do not have fleas on my dogs, my cats, or in my house.  A rare tick every year or so, and I do field training with my one dog, so he’s in a populated environment. 200 ticks on your dog?  Something is very, very wrong there. — Janet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

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It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder

[Replying to RCPA only] In most of the parts of the US where I’ve lived, letting cats outdoors would have gretly reduced their lifespans. Even in heavily urbanized areas like Silicon Valley, it was not all that unusual to see coyotes coming down out of the hills and prowling residential neighborhoods at night. The part of town we live in now is one of the nicest. There are dogs running loose once in a while, cars driving by way too fast, and coyotes and mountain lions coming out of the river bottom. However, our kitties do love their outside time! We have a little back yard, completely fenced. I’ve securely blocked all of the gaps between fence posts and walks, raised the top of the fence with plastic netting, and in general made the yard cat-proof. None of the kitties has ever left the yard since we finished the kitty proofing. And since they have a safe place, they love to spend time outdoors. They love to be able to lie in the sun, to chase bugs and lizards, to hunt gophers, and to have room to run and play with each other. If I didn’t have a kitty-proof yard I wouldn’t even dream of letting them outdoors. It would be a very fast death sentence. The only exceptions are that Harri Roadcat loves to go for leash walks, Ranger seems to like it a lot, and Amelia doesn’t mind a short leash walk once in a while. Dan

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t have an indoor/outdoor cat without infesting your house with fleas, mites and ticks or whatever.  I just don’t see the point. kili While my cats stay in, for their safety and wellbeing, the above comment is absurd.  Dogs go out every day and don’t infest houses with fleas, mites and ticks, and cats are no different. My cats  can go on the deck or patio with us, but never unattended outside, and I don’t trust the dog behind me not to come over the fence at them, so close to the house or not at all.  Skipjack say not at all – he will stay in an open doorway. As far as cultural differences, the US is a very different place from many other countries.  The population (human, feline,, canine, wild animals) just can’t be compared, nor that vicious beast, the automobile. Ha!  I’ve had dogs before that were indoor/outdoor dogs.  I’m sorry, Frontline doesn’t cut it.  I gave my dog frontline 2 times a month and I’d still pick about 200 ticks off of him and he was infested with fleas.  I gave him baths weekly.  The products don’t work.  Try to live on Maui and see if you don’t have the same results. kili kili, dear… do yourself (and rpca) a favour and cut out the cross posting when you reply.  There are some real fanatics on h+b who like to lord it over everyone, them being "experts" (ha!) Needless to say, you are correct.  I don’t know about other folks, but my dog – Sampson (RB) – was an indoor dog; he only went out to use the potty. Jill

But you do mean you took him out for a walk regularly where he could have a run off the lead now and again? Tweed

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t have an indoor/outdoor cat without infesting your house with fleas, mites and ticks or whatever.  I just don’t see the point. kili While my cats stay in, for their safety and wellbeing, the above comment is absurd.  Dogs go out every day and don’t infest houses with fleas, mites and ticks, and cats are no different. My cats  can go on the deck or patio with us, but never unattended outside, and I don’t trust the dog behind me not to come over the fence at them, so close to the house or not at all.  Skipjack say not at all – he will stay in an open doorway. As far as cultural differences, the US is a very different place from many other countries.  The population (human, feline,, canine, wild animals) just can’t be compared, nor that vicious beast, the automobile. Ha!  I’ve had dogs before that were indoor/outdoor dogs.  I’m sorry, Frontline doesn’t cut it.  I gave my dog frontline 2 times a month and I’d still pick about 200 ticks off of him and he was infested with fleas.  I gave him baths weekly.  The products don’t work.  Try to live on Maui and see if you don’t have the same results. kili kili, dear… do yourself (and rpca) a favour and cut out the cross posting when you reply.  There are some real fanatics on h+b who like to lord it over everyone, them being "experts" (ha!) Needless to say, you are correct.  I don’t know about other folks, but my dog – Sampson (RB) – was an indoor dog; he only went out to use the potty. Jill But you do mean you took him out for a walk regularly where he could have a run off the lead now and again? Tweed

I once had a house where I could let him run in the fenced yard for a bit. When it snowed, I went out and dug a trench in the snow for him to be able to poop and pee.  Otherwise he never ran off the leash.  I walked with him… his lead extended to about 20 feet.  I have always lived too close to a busy street to let him run off the lead.  He lived 18 years so apparently I did something the right way Jill

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t have an indoor/outdoor cat without infesting your house with fleas, mites and ticks or whatever.  I just don’t see the point. kili While my cats stay in, for their safety and wellbeing, the above comment is absurd.  Dogs go out every day and don’t infest houses with fleas, mites and ticks, and cats are no different. My cats  can go on the deck or patio with us, but never unattended outside, and I don’t trust the dog behind me not to come over the fence at them, so close to the house or not at all.  Skipjack say not at all – he will stay in an open doorway. As far as cultural differences, the US is a very different place from many other countries.  The population (human, feline,, canine, wild animals) just can’t be compared, nor that vicious beast, the automobile. Ha!  I’ve had dogs before that were indoor/outdoor dogs.  I’m sorry, Frontline doesn’t cut it.  I gave my dog frontline 2 times a month and I’d still pick about 200 ticks off of him and he was infested with fleas.  I gave him baths weekly.  The products don’t work.  Try to live on Maui and see if you don’t have the same results. kili kili, dear… do yourself (and rpca) a favour and cut out the cross posting when you reply.  There are some real fanatics on h+b who like to lord it over everyone, them being "experts" (ha!) Needless to say, you are correct.  I don’t know about other folks, but my dog – Sampson (RB) – was an indoor dog; he only went out to use the potty. Jill But you do mean you took him out for a walk regularly where he could have a run off the lead now and again? Tweed I once had a house where I could let him run in the fenced yard for a bit. When it snowed, I went out and dug a trench in the snow for him to be able to poop and pee.  Otherwise he never ran off the leash.  I walked with him… his lead extended to about 20 feet.  I have always lived too close to a busy street to let him run off the lead.  He lived 18 years so apparently I did something the right way Jill

There is definitely a cultural difference between the USA and the UK then. It would not be seen as acceptable in the UK for a dog never to run off lead even if only at the weekend on a visit outside town. A shelter here would not allow a dog adoption if it had to stay on a lead all its life.  They would rightly say you do not have the facilities. Tweed

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: First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the : (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our : feline friends. : : With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they : (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, : they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and : people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. : There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the : pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine : for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back : garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from : but if he did I’d let him). : : It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s : cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). : : It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to : stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard : of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if : they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a : cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect : the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. : : It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have : people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general : population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying : that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things : differently. I agree with you whole-heartedly. Love of confinement is not something that comes naturally to any animal. I do not own a cat, but have a "relationship" of sorts with "stray" one that visits me almost daily. I give her some food and you might think that’s why she comes, and so would have I if it were not for the fact that she visited me (actually my 3rd floor porch, I was a just a side attraction) for 2-3 months before I started feeding her. Some well-meaning friends have suggested I "adopt" her. Even if I was tempted for a moment, I have been stopped by remembering the life two of my friends’ cats have, and then watching this one jump the fences, sniff the entire yards, chase after a real or imaginary mouse, climb up three floors to sun-bathe, scan three backyards from there and rush down if she saw something interesting, and many such activities. She comes inside, wants to be petted, sits on different rugs for 10-15 minutes each, even watches TV now and then, but always wants to return to outdoors after 1-2 hours. If you live in an area with lots of wild animals, or in an extremely urban environment, confinement may make sense. However, in most cases cats deserve more freedom than we give them. I am happy to hear about their life in UK. : Marcia : Lord Otis’s slave and minder :

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t want my cats outside because cars don’t stop for them, we have raccoons (rabid), possums (rabid), rats (rabid) not to mention the fleas, out?  Seriously?  Do you like paying for vet visits?  My female cat, Chloe is very happy to be where she is; she’s SUCH the sweetheart, my male cat is a devil in cat’s clothing.  I’d love to let him out just to get the dickens out of him, but at what cost?  You can’t have an indoor/outdoor cat without infesting your house with fleas, mites and ticks or whatever.  I just don’t see the point. kili

I think you might be overstating this just a wee bit. I live in the US (and have lived in England as well) and I let my cat out. Of course, we live on a very large tract of land in the suburbs and he has never strayed off the lawn, which gives him a couple of acres to roam around. He doesn’t have flea, ticks, or earmites. In fact, he is completely and totally healthy and happy. My cat is innoculated and always has been. Yes, there are animals that carry rabies in our town, but he has a yearly rabies shot (recommended by our vet who thinks it’s safer for outdoor cats than the 3 year shot) and he’s such a scardy cat that he would run under the house if he ever came across anything wild anyhow. He doesn’t go out at night ever, he’s only out a couple of hours a day in the warmer months and then asks to come in. I’ve kept him indoors when we lived in a less safe place and he rewarded  me by peeing all over the house. You want to know why I let him out? Because I am sick to death of roaming the house with a blacklight trying to find out where the damn cat peed. When he goes out, the peeing stops. Period. Marjorie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder

There might be a difference in the percentages of cats kept indoors, that’s all. My cousin who lives in Virginia Waters (England) keeps her two cats indoors.  And let’s not forget it’s illegal to declaw in Britain, something that’s done quite willingly by many vets in the States if the owner just asks. ..  Steve  ..

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder

It just isn’t the same in the USA as it is here.  Yes, there is a huge cultural difference, like declawing being offered at the same time as speutering presumably because of an assumption that most cats will stay inside and furniture is king.. BUT.  They have the most awful predators there.  Cat-eating ones, which, apart from the renegade fox, we don’t have here. Mountain lions, coyotes, bears are just waiting to snap up your cat.  And big bad traffic like we have never experienced. At least I think this is the reason that I’ve learned from this group why cats are mainly kept inside in the USA.  Yes? Or is it really just cultural?  and some of it not necessary, because this made me think hard. Tweed

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?

Probably at some point after they got tired of recovering the run-over, or chewed-up bodies of their beloved cats. The US is a HUGE country, BTW, and there are a bewildering number of different civic and geographic variations in the way people live, that are of course going to effect the way they have animals.  People live, e.g.,  in midtown Manhattan–  Would you consider that an appropriate place for cats to wander around?  How about near a railroad track, or an eight-lane highway?   English perceptions may also be affected by the fact that in rural and suburban areas, you have long completely eradicated the large predators that would consider your cats to be snacks. Your cats are the top predators, in many cases.  We still have coyotes, bobcats, bears, cougars, etc. Cats can live completely full and happy lives completely indoors, from birth to death.  Cats who have never been outside rarely clamor to get outside.   "Some get lost, some get hit by traffic."    

So do children.  That doesn’t mean it’s inevitable, and we should just sit back and let it happen. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder

It may be partly cultural, but I think it is also at least partly environmental.  There are numerous natural predators in the U.S. (predators that prey on cats, that is) that apparently are not a problem in England. We sometimes have problems with acts of deliberate cruelty plus instances of accidents (such as, ingestion of antifreeze).  I can’t really address that last point in a comparative sense with any real accuracy.  In addition, there is a problem that surely occurs in *both* Britain and the U.S. — that is, automobiles.  It only takes one car at the wrong time to kill or badly injure a cat. All of my cats have been very happy as indoor cats, even the one that started life as a feral cat.  He showed a great interest in going outdoors for about the first year but not afterwards.  None of my others have even shown an interest in going outdoors, although I realize that this is not true for many cats.  I do provide lots of attention, toys, scratching posts, and cat trees.  I personally think that they are happier — and certainly more healthy — than many outdoor cats that have been injured in cat fights or other ways.  I do realize that I may be rationalizing and there is room for a true difference of opinion, but I also believe that each situation (indoor vs. outdoor) has some advantages and some disadvantages. MaryL My cats — Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e

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You can’t have an indoor/outdoor cat without infesting your house with fleas, mites and ticks or whatever.  I just don’t see the point. kili

While my cats stay in, for their safety and wellbeing, the above comment is absurd.  Dogs go out every day and don’t infest houses with fleas, mites and ticks, and cats are no different. My cats  can go on the deck or patio with us, but never unattended outside, and I don’t trust the dog behind me not to come over the fence at them, so close to the house or not at all.  Skipjack say not at all – he will stay in an open doorway. As far as cultural differences, the US is a very different place from many other countries.  The population (human, feline,, canine, wild animals) just can’t be compared, nor that vicious beast, the automobile. — Janet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder It just isn’t the same in the USA as it is here.  Yes, there is a huge cultural difference, like declawing being offered at the same time as speutering presumably because of an assumption that most cats will stay inside and furniture is king.. BUT.  They have the most awful predators there.  Cat-eating ones, which, apart from the renegade fox, we don’t have here. Mountain lions, coyotes, bears are just waiting to snap up your cat.  And big bad traffic like we have never experienced. At least I think this is the reason that I’ve learned from this group why cats are mainly kept inside in the USA.  Yes? Or is it really just cultural?  and some of it not necessary, because this made me think hard. Tweed

Tweed, you got. You would be surprised even in town there are predators. AND we seem to have a lot more sicko neighbors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). <snip It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups I live in the US, close to DC, and I keep my cats indoors because: – There are lots of animals out there that may cause physical harm. Foxes, feral dogs and cats, skunks, etc.  Rabies is relatively common all throughout the mid-Atlantic region.  Lyme disease is also very common in my area. – There’s a lot of native wildlife that I don’t think should be pillaged by my non-native cats, including birds and insects. –  I see it as my responsibility to keep my pets off of other peoples’ property.  My choice to keep pet cats should not affect my neighbors – no pooping in their gardens, no digging up their potted plants, no antagonizing their pets, etc. – On a related note, there are people who do not take kindly to having their yards and gardens disturbed by loose animals, and they can and will call animal control, or deliberately poison wandering pets. – There is a ton of traffic everywhere in the DC area.  Even if traffic was slow, it only takes one car to flatten your cat.  In fact, one of my aunts lives in farm country where traffic is light, and she’s had two cats killed by passing cars in the last five years. When I decided to adopt cats, I took responsibility for their welfare and their behavior.  I provide an interesting, continuously-changing indoor environment for them (luckily, that often means moving cat trees around.  As far as they’re concerned, if it’s in a different room, it’s a brand new toy .  I make sure they get a healthy diet and plenty of exercise, and I’m still debating building them an outdoor enclosure. Outdoor enclosures really seem to be the best solution.  They allow the cats access to the outdoors, which many seem to enjoy, while protecting them from most of the dangers. I don’t think it’s really cultural; it’s just practical.  Unless feeling responsible for your cats health and for not bothering your neighbors is a cultural thing  :) Also, keeping cats indoors really doesn’t seem cruel at all. Seriously – I know many many indoor cats, and the only ones that seem "unhappy" (anthropormorphizing, I know) are the ones that seem bored, but indoors does not have to equal bored. It really is most common (and recommended) in the US to keep cats indoors, or at least in outdoor enclosures. — Jennifer

Well said, Jennifer. kili

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder It just isn’t the same in the USA as it is here.  Yes, there is a huge cultural difference, like declawing being offered at the same time as speutering presumably because of an assumption that most cats will stay inside and furniture is king.. BUT.  They have the most awful predators there.  Cat-eating ones, which, apart from the renegade fox, we don’t have here. Mountain lions, coyotes, bears are just waiting to snap up your cat.  And big bad traffic like we have never experienced. At least I think this is the reason that I’ve learned from this group why cats are mainly kept inside in the USA.  Yes? Or is it really just cultural?  and some of it not necessary, because this made me think hard. Tweed

I don’t want my cats outside because cars don’t stop for them, we have raccoons (rabid), possums (rabid), rats (rabid) not to mention the fleas, out?  Seriously?  Do you like paying for vet visits?  My female cat, Chloe is very happy to be where she is; she’s SUCH the sweetheart, my male cat is a devil in cat’s clothing.  I’d love to let him out just to get the dickens out of him, but at what cost?  You can’t have an indoor/outdoor cat without infesting your house with fleas, mites and ticks or whatever.  I just don’t see the point. kili

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder There might be a difference in the percentages of cats kept indoors, that’s all. My cousin who lives in Virginia Waters (England) keeps her two cats indoors.  And let’s not forget it’s illegal to declaw in Britain, something that’s done quite willingly by many vets in the States if the owner just asks. ..  Steve  ..

I’ve met many cats outside in Virginia Water, your cousin’s definately in the minority. Of course all the large preditors were killed off by humans in the UK, hundreds of years ago, if they were still arround the situation may be different. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

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It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here.

I’m in quiet rural Cornwall (UK). Having lost my beloved Kensey to beheading by a farm implement towed behind a tractor (so much wider than a car so could catch him waiting in the hedgerow) on the quietest of country lanes, despite his 8 years of traffic experience including the occasional very near miss/brush, I swore "never again". Bandit, whom I got from CP aged around 2 and was experienced in the "out" isn’t very confident and lurks within yards of the house, so moves freely during the day. Pericles (RB from the FIP virus), Snowball and soon Claudius was/is/will be harness & flexilead trained and did/does/will go "walkies" around the garden and even the village as & when they want. Big red Pericles was a talking point in our community as he led me for miles around the local footpaths etc. With our local keen gardeners all being hostile to cats (digging & pooping) & using lethal slug pellets etc. it isn’t only traffic & foxes that can kill, even in the most peaceful rural area. So I’ve adopted the safety-first American approach. Nearly everyone I talk to knows _someone_ who leash-walks a cat, esp. in towns etc. so it seems to be getting more common. If I could resolve border issues with my neighbours I’d try to instal a cat-proof fence around the whole (small) back garden, but with dividing lines being theirs & consisting of sheds etc. it’s practically impossible. My "boys" thus get a quieter life than they might like ideally, but certainly a longer one. Purrs Gordon, Bandit, Snowball, Claudius & Raki

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First let me say I’m not being antagonistic, I’m just interested in the (apparent) culture difference between the US & the UK as regards our feline friends. With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they (usually) learn their way back home from their local neighbourhood, they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with. There’s not too many birds in London and no-one seems to care about the pigeon population anyway.  Some get lost, some get hit by traffic (mine for example isn’t allowed out the front to the road, only the back garden where he doesn’t seem to want to climb the fence to escape from but if he did I’d let him). It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard of over here and to be honest I think people would laugh over here if they saw a cat on a lead, but fair play for succeeding in training a cat to do it), or build these enclosure thingies for them, to protect the wildlife, also I’ve never seen one over here. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups  As I say, I wasn’t saying that either way is right, it’s just interesting how people do things differently. Marcia Lord Otis’s slave and minder It just isn’t the same in the USA as it is here.  Yes, there is a huge cultural difference, like declawing being offered at the same time as speutering presumably because of an assumption that most cats will stay inside and furniture is king.. BUT.  They have the most awful predators there.  Cat-eating ones, which, apart from the renegade fox, we don’t have here. Mountain lions, coyotes, bears are just waiting to snap up your cat.  And big bad traffic like we have never experienced. At least I think this is the reason that I’ve learned from this group why cats are mainly kept inside in the USA.  Yes? Or is it really just cultural?  and some of it not necessary, because this made me think hard. Tweed

Piggy-backing on Tweed (lightly, dear, wouldn’t want to hurt you): Another thing, at least in my area…  I’ve seen (and reported) people who swerve their vehicle in order TO hit a cat, I’ve seen them drive onto people’s lawns (or sidewalks, or the other side of the road) in order to run over a cat.  Then we’ve got the ones (in my neighbo(u)rhood) who enjoy poisoning animals (they’ve been reported as well) or shooting them (not just cats). Where I live the predators are as Tweed listed, then there are the feral dogs, who do not know how to "kill" correctly, and that is the worst thing to find (they don’t do a kill bite at the throat or spine – they just rip that animal apart while it’s still fighting) and/or hear.  I’ve seen this, and gotten bitten trying to stop an attack on a little kid (I managed, baseball bats are wonderful things) with several other people. Some of the predators here aren’t just interested in cats, they like to get dogs, ponies, and children too.  One is only allowed to kill a predator if it’s attacking a child (or adult), and even then one gets to deal with fines and punishment for killing "protected" species (punishment seems to be community service in the few cases I know about). Smokie Darling (Annie) – all of my masters and mistresses now prefer the "great" indoors, so long as they can look outside.

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<snip It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested). <snip It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have people in the US been doing these things?  Perhaps it’s not the general population, just people in cat groups

I live in the US, close to DC, and I keep my cats indoors because: – There are lots of animals out there that may cause physical harm. Foxes, feral dogs and cats, skunks, etc.  Rabies is relatively common all throughout the mid-Atlantic region.  Lyme disease is also very common in my area. – There’s a lot of native wildlife that I don’t think should be pillaged by my non-native cats, including birds and insects. –  I see it as my responsibility to keep my pets off of other peoples’ property.  My choice to keep pet cats should not affect my neighbors – no pooping in their gardens, no digging up their potted plants, no antagonizing their pets, etc. – On a related note, there are people who do not take kindly to having their yards and gardens disturbed by loose animals, and they can and will call animal control, or deliberately poison wandering pets. – There is a ton of traffic everywhere in the DC area.  Even if traffic was slow, it only takes one car to flatten your cat.  In fact, one of my aunts lives in farm country where traffic is light, and she’s had two cats killed by passing cars in the last five years. When I decided to adopt cats, I took responsibility for their welfare and their behavior.  I provide an interesting, continuously-changing indoor environment for them (luckily, that often means moving cat trees around.  As far as they’re concerned, if it’s in a different room, it’s a brand new toy .  I make sure they get a healthy diet and plenty of exercise, and I’m still debating building them an outdoor enclosure. Outdoor enclosures really seem to be the best solution.  They allow the cats access to the outdoors, which many seem to enjoy, while protecting them from most of the dangers. I don’t think it’s really cultural; it’s just practical.  Unless feeling responsible for your cats health and for not bothering your neighbors is a cultural thing  :) Also, keeping cats indoors really doesn’t seem cruel at all. Seriously – I know many many indoor cats, and the only ones that seem "unhappy" (anthropormorphizing, I know) are the ones that seem bored, but indoors does not have to equal bored. It really is most common (and recommended) in the US to keep cats indoors, or at least in outdoor enclosures. — Jennifer

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With regard to letting cats out:  All the cats I know go outside, they

That’s the way it is back home in Mexico. And that’s how we kept our beloved Quetzie. We went through half a dozen cats that way, many would just disappear and would be presumed dead. they don’t go too far but suss out gardens, wildlife, other cats and people, and hopefully realise that traffic isn’t for playing with.

Cats are not people. It seems natural for a cat to want to venture outside, and to me it’s cruel to keep them inside (unless they’re not interested).

We have 7 indoor-only cats. Of those 7, Xoxo spent the first 2 years of his life living outdoors exclusively. Guess which one of our cats shows absolutely no interest in going outside? It’s not cruel, as long as you provide them with enough toys, cat trees, etc., to keep them busy. Cats sleep up to 18 hours per day! It seems that in the US people are much more likely to force cats to stay indoors, or take them out on a leash (something I’ve NEVER heard

Indoor-only cats live longer, healthier lives. It’s interesting, do you think it’s a cultural thing?  How long have

Might be. But I’m not american and after our Quetzie died in surgery after being run over by a car I swore I’d never again allow one of my pets to be hit by a car. It’s a 100% preventable accident, and I choose to prevent it. I will never go through that much pain if I can help it. Cheers. Victor

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Question:

Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s our new cat, and is currently hiding under a chair in the conservatory. He was born in autumn 2001, given away to a petshop (!) and sold to an elderly lady who went on to adopt three more kittens within a year, then died, leaving them to her son, who already had four cats of his own. Unable to cope, he signed his mother’s cats over to us in January, and three of them were adopted quickly, McCavity failing to make an impression on anyone until Ade fell in love with him this morning. He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s our new cat, and is currently hiding under a chair in the conservatory. He was born in autumn 2001, given away to a petshop (!) and sold to an elderly lady who went on to adopt three more kittens within a year, then died, leaving them to her son, who already had four cats of his own. Unable to cope, he signed his mother’s cats over to us in January, and three of them were adopted quickly, McCavity failing to make an impression on anyone until Ade fell in love with him this morning. He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here.

Frank and Nikki are sending welcoming and settling purrs to McCavity. What a handsome boy! I may have mentioned that tabbies are my favourite. ;o) — Marina, Frank and Nikki Email marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frankiennikki

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Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please?

PPPPPUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Here’s a welcoming freshly caught mowsie from Waffles, Francis and Marble, as a welcome token to tempt McCavity out from under the chair.. <:)))))~ The humans and felines in this house have a soft-spot for one-eyed cats Cheers, helen s (and three felines with purr motors at full revs) –This is an invalid email address to avoid spam– to get correct one remove fame & fortune –Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off–

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aw, please tell McCavity cat that he is a beautiful boy and to stop hiding under a chair. We hope he gets over the shyness and joins the family soon. Jazz & his mama — Irulan from the stars we came, to the stars we return from now until the end of time

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s our new cat, and is currently hiding under a chair in the conservatory. He was born in autumn 2001, given away to a petshop (!) and sold to an elderly lady who went on to adopt three more kittens within a year, then died, leaving them to her son, who already had four cats of his own. Unable to cope, he signed his mother’s cats over to us in January, and three of them were adopted quickly, McCavity failing to make an impression on anyone until Ade fell in love with him this morning. He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette

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Awww… he’s a cutie! — Victor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

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yodeled: http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg

Oh a darling!  I love tabbies.  What a sweet expression. Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley)

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Welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes sent to McCavity from Sweden. Elisabet and Hugo Katt Jeanette skrev i meddelandet … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s our new cat, and is currently hiding under a chair in the conservatory. He was born in autumn 2001, given away to a petshop (!) and sold to an elderly lady who went on to adopt three more kittens within a year, then died, leaving them to her son, who already had four cats of his own. Unable to cope, he signed his mother’s cats over to us in January, and three of them were adopted quickly, McCavity failing to make an impression on anyone until Ade fell in love with him this morning. He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette

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Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please?

http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette

Awwww!  What a sweetie.  Give him scritches and a kitty treat for me Here’s hoping he comes out from under the chair soon. Jill & Persia

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Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette

I’m so glad you adopted this kitty.  He’s beautiful, and the loss of one eye should not cause any problems.  I adopted Duffy a little more than a year ago.  He has been completely blind since birth.  He can do almost everything that a sighted cat do, even without any vision at all.  Thank you for adopting McCavity. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly:      ’o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s our new cat, and is currently hiding under a chair in the conservatory. He was born in autumn 2001, given away to a petshop (!) and sold to an elderly lady who went on to adopt three more kittens within a year, then died, leaving them to her son, who already had four cats of his own. Unable to cope, he signed his mother’s cats over to us in January, and three of them were adopted quickly, McCavity failing to make an impression on anyone until Ade fell in love with him this morning. He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette

Welcome! Welcome! Welcome! It’s so good to see good news  What happened to his eye? What an addition to Pine Cone’s crew he will make!! I hope he gets adapted quickly. A handsome fellow for the ladies to swooon over Karen

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s our new cat, and is currently hiding under a chair in the conservatory. He was born in autumn 2001, given away to a petshop (!) and sold to an elderly lady who went on to adopt three more kittens within a year, then died, leaving them to her son, who already had four cats of his own. Unable to cope, he signed his mother’s cats over to us in January, and three of them were adopted quickly, McCavity failing to make an impression on anyone until Ade fell in love with him this morning. He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette

Welcoming purrs on the way. — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? PPPPPUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Here’s a welcoming freshly caught mowsie from Waffles, Francis and Marble, as a welcome token to tempt McCavity out from under the chair.. <:)))))~ The humans and felines in this house have a soft-spot for one-eyed cats Cheers, helen s (and three felines with purr motors at full revs)

Any other one eyed cats in the group? Or are they all in England

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Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please?

Welcome McCavity!!  You’re onto a good thing here with Jeanette and Ade.   They take good care of their kitties and spoil them like they’re supposed to.  If you’re interested and not still consolidating your place in the hoomin’s hearts, you’re welcome to join us on our pirate voyages of fishies and discovery for 2004. Cap’n Pine Cone esq. Hoomin note.  Welcome McCavity,  we’re pulling for you to settle in easily and be delighted by your new family for a long long time. Pam, Rob, and the NC nine

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He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. Frank and Nikki are sending welcoming and settling purrs to McCavity. What a handsome boy! I may have mentioned that tabbies are my favourite. ;o)

Well, he’s my first ever tabby Spooky was white with tabby markings, and Ade grew up with a tabby called, oddly enough, Tabby.  But he is rather gorgeous isn’t he?

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Any other one eyed cats in the group? Or are they all in England

Well the best ones are. Purrs (of a smug nature), Waffles –This is an invalid email address to avoid spam– to get correct one remove fame & fortune –Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off–

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette I’m so glad you adopted this kitty.  He’s beautiful, and the loss of one eye should not cause any problems.  I adopted Duffy a little more than a year ago.  He has been completely blind since birth.  He can do almost everything that a sighted cat do, even without any vision at all.  Thank you for adopting McCavity. MaryL (take out the litter to reply)

I remember your posts about Duffy. McCavity keeps venturing out for a cuddle, then getting a bit nervous and retreating again. We’ll give him the free run of the conservatory and dining room tonight.

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! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Welcome! Welcome! Welcome! It’s so good to see good news  What happened to his eye? What an addition to Pine Cone’s crew he will make!! I hope he gets adapted quickly. A handsome fellow for the ladies to swooon over Karen

Poor little lamb got hit by a car, he got away with bruises mostly, but lost his eye. But he’s so handsome he gets away with it.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? PPPPPUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Here’s a welcoming freshly caught mowsie from Waffles, Francis and Marble, as a welcome token to tempt McCavity out from under the chair.. <:)))))~ The humans and felines in this house have a soft-spot for one-eyed cats Cheers, helen s (and three felines with purr motors at full revs) Any other one eyed cats in the group? Or are they all in England

I have a friend who volunteers with O’Malley Alley Cats.  She is fostering two littermates.  One has one eye, and the other is blind in both eyes. They are both sweet, active little cats.  (She lives in East Texas.) MaryL

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McCavity is a gorgeous boy….he and Blind Terrorist Rowdy would make a "book-end pair" on Pine Cone’s pirate voyage: Rowdy has a blind left eye, you know. Otherwise, they could be brothers, appearance-wise. You’re so lucky to have McCavity.

: :

: : Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to : McCavity please? : : : : Welcome McCavity!!  You’re onto a good thing here with Jeanette and Ade. :   They take good care of their kitties and spoil them like they’re : supposed to.  If you’re interested and not still consolidating your : place in the hoomin’s hearts, you’re welcome to join us on our pirate : voyages of fishies and discovery for 2004. : : Cap’n Pine Cone esq. : : Hoomin note.  Welcome McCavity,  we’re pulling for you to settle in : easily and be delighted by your new family for a long long time. : : Pam, Rob, and the NC nine :

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Welcome! Welcome! Welcome! It’s so good to see good news  What happened to his eye? What an addition to Pine Cone’s crew he will make!! I hope he gets adapted quickly. A handsome fellow for the ladies to swooon over Karen Poor little lamb got hit by a car, he got away with bruises mostly, but lost his eye. But he’s so handsome he gets away with it.

It gives him a "roguish" quality! Karen

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please? He’s a brown / black tabby with a white chin and tiny white bib. He’s got white toes too! He’s only got one eye, he lost his right eye in an accident last year. And you can see him here. http://www.futurenation.net/prestoncpl/images/mccavityweb.jpg Jeanette I’m so glad you adopted this kitty.  He’s beautiful, and the loss of one eye should not cause any problems.  I adopted Duffy a little more than a year ago.  He has been completely blind since birth.  He can do almost everything that a sighted cat do, even without any vision at all.  Thank you for adopting McCavity. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly:      ’o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

Duffy is just splendid, and his behavior sure looks perfectly cat-like to me.  Makes you realize how much they depend on other senses, and how sophisticated they are — we’re so vision-centric, we tend to forget. Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley)

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Well, he’s my first ever tabby Spooky was white with tabby markings, and Ade grew up with a tabby called, oddly enough, Tabby.  But he is rather gorgeous isn’t he?

I grew up with a lot of tabbies, so tabby is sort of the "real" cat colour for me. Not that I love Frank and Nikki any less for not being tabbies, of course. ) — Marina, Frank and Nikki Email marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frankiennikki

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When I was a kid a neighborhood cat(stray) had a litter with 3 of the 4 kitten with only one eye, it was an odd birthing(taking place in our garage) with a set of twins in one birth sack(both missing an eye) and 2 other kittens one with one eye and one with two. My vet has an office cat missing an eye. He is beautiful laid back long haired cat that looks lke a maine coon. They said he was brought to them as a found injured cat, underfed, missing fur, and injured eye. They named him Willy. He is a wonderful asset to their office, so laid back that when a large half grown german shepard came over and snuffled his nose deep into willy’s belly fur willy never even raised a paw or a hiss.  peace, p

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Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to McCavity please?

   Welcoming purrs coming from Speckles and Hobo and lots of good vibes from me.  Such a handsome boy shouldn’t hide his light, so come on out, McCavity, and do some showing off!!   You’re one lucky guy to find such a great home.   Jeanne

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – McCavity is a gorgeous boy….he and Blind Terrorist Rowdy would make a "book-end pair" on Pine Cone’s pirate voyage: Rowdy has a blind left eye, you know. Otherwise, they could be brothers, appearance-wise. You’re so lucky to have McCavity. : : : : Would the group please send welcoming purrs and good settling in vibes to : McCavity please? : : : : Welcome McCavity!!  You’re onto a good thing here with Jeanette and Ade. :   They take good care of their kitties and spoil them like they’re : supposed to.  If you’re interested and not still consolidating your : place in the hoomin’s hearts, you’re welcome to join us on our pirate : voyages of fishies and discovery for 2004. : : Cap’n Pine Cone esq. : : Hoomin note.  Welcome McCavity,  we’re pulling for you to settle in : easily and be delighted by your new family for a long long time. : : Pam, Rob, and the NC nine : Welcome, welcome McCavity.  You certainly are a handsome dude.  You have a

namesake in The Book of Cats by T. S. Elliot.  McCavity’s job was to make things disappear, as in take them,  also, to create mischief.  One could not see McCavity, so, he became a member of many households where he was blamed for many mishaps.  If you can get you family to get the book and read McCavity to you. Charleen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Wow.  Kitties and dogs and a bunny and turtle all getting along?  What a wonderful menagerie that would be! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It does get a bit tricky…  I had Fumble for 9 years and Hannah for 8 1/2 years before bringing in Myrtle and Precious (they had been dumped and I could not leave them, it was over 100 degrees here then.)  I had to go through the your room, their room routine for a couple of months, there was a lot of arguing under the door through this.  Then I started introducing them during the day and trading places during the night, alternating which two slept with me.  Remember Fumble is very big!  Now 3 years later there are still some jealousies but they all sleep in my bed with me, each having their own spot, and that depends on the season.  I have a full bed, not a queen even .  They have most of the room but permit me a tiny corner on the upper right side, no more, no less.  They have worked it out beautifully, I think they know that it hurt my heart to isolate any of them at night when I was sure they all needed to feel close to me (of course, you all know it was the other way around!!).  G*d – I love these babies so much! I cannot imagine a day without them.  BTW, my golden retriever, Sadie, was the first to arrive, she mothered Fumble and Hannah like she had given birth to them.  After that, we were Sadie (dog) and Fumble and Hannah (cat-cat), then came Amber, my Holland Lop, Sadie also mothered her and the cats loved her, they played like sister and brother kitties (not bunnies) with Sadie tending to the lot of them.  When Fumble was around 2 and Hannah 1 1/2 we adopted Cindy, a seriously abused Aussie mix.  Since the cats and bunny had been around Sadie, she entered unnoticed by the cats and bunny.  Again, Sadie had a mission – mothering.  Then many years later came Myrtle and Precious.  Soon after my adopted daughter and granddaughter came to live with me for 1 1/2 years, they brought their cat Beauty, we did the "your room – their room" routine for a few weeks and introduced them, while there was no real deep love exchanged, they tolerated her presence just fine, actually the toleration was all show I think.  We came in from work/school many times to find them playing, then utter a mild hiss when they realized we were watching, I think it was an act!!  So I firmly believe that they mostly learn to "feel family" through us, I know there are exceptions but I have been fortunate enough not to have experienced it.  Mr. Turtle??? Well, they don’t want in his bed (aquarium) and he does not want in theirs, so that has never posed a problem – oh and he is now 19 years young, he will outlive me I am sure.

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I took some this morning of Marco.  Pictures of Maya can be seen at http://thecatalbum4.homestead.com/photos043.html She is in the bottom 3 pictures to the right.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would love to see pictures of your kitties, do you have any? Fuga

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I took some this morning of Marco.  Pictures of Maya can be seen at http://thecatalbum4.homestead.com/photos043.html She is in the bottom 3 pictures to the right. I would love to see pictures of your kitties, do you have any? Fuga

I love the one where she is holding her foot! Karen

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I would love to see pictures of your kitties, do you have any? Fuga

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Yup – it used to be known as the ‘zoo’, I love plants and have really, really big ones in the living room which provided hiding/stalking places for the kitties to ‘pop’ out of, so that aided the ‘zoo’ appearance!  Sadly, the menagerie is limited to the kitties and the turtle now.  Cindy (my Aussie mix) passed away from a brain tumor on Valentine’s day last year, she was 11, Amber (my Holland lop) lost her battle with cancer (breast) two years ago in May, she lived to be 9 and 1/2 years old, the vet said that was an extraordinary long life for her breed, and Sadie (my golden retriever) passed three years ago at age 17.  Amber had had surgery to remove the cancer but it returned.  She had made such a great impression with the vet with her ‘in your face’ personality.  She thought she was a cross between dog, cat and human and very social.  She forced one to pet her much like a dog when they push their heads under your hand and arm to get it started. He also said it was very difficult getting her under the anesthesia, having to dose her like a dog rather than a bunny, very unusual he said.  With each of my babies that passed, I held them close through their final journey and I miss them so!  After Cindy passed I wondered if I could ever survive losing another, my heart breaks again thinking about it.  Of all of my babies, hers was the most unconditional love I’d known and I know she understood every word I ever said to her, don’t know how but I know she did, more on that later. Buffi

: Wow.  Kitties and dogs and a bunny and turtle all getting along?  What : a wonderful menagerie that would be! : :

: It does get a bit tricky…  I had Fumble for 9 years and Hannah for 8 1/2 : years before bringing in Myrtle and Precious (they had been dumped and I : could not leave them, it was over 100 degrees here then.)  I had to go : through the your room, their room routine for a couple of months, there was : a lot of arguing under the door through this.  Then I started introducing : them during the day and trading places during the night, alternating which : two slept with me.  Remember Fumble is very big!  Now 3 years later there : are still some jealousies but they all sleep in my bed with me, each having : their own spot, and that depends on the season.  I have a full bed, not a : queen even .  They have most of the room but permit me a tiny corner on : the upper right side, no more, no less.  They have worked it out : beautifully, I think they know that it hurt my heart to isolate any of them : at night when I was sure they all needed to feel close to me (of course, you : all know it was the other way around!!).  G*d – I love these babies so much! : I cannot imagine a day without them.  BTW, my golden retriever, Sadie, was : the first to arrive, she mothered Fumble and Hannah like she had given birth : to them.  After that, we were Sadie (dog) and Fumble and Hannah (cat-cat), : then came Amber, my Holland Lop, Sadie also mothered her and the cats loved : her, they played like sister and brother kitties (not bunnies) with Sadie : tending to the lot of them.  When Fumble was around 2 and Hannah 1 1/2 we : adopted Cindy, a seriously abused Aussie mix.  Since the cats and bunny had : been around Sadie, she entered unnoticed by the cats and bunny.  Again, : Sadie had a mission – mothering.  Then many years later came Myrtle and : Precious.  Soon after my adopted daughter and granddaughter came to live : with me for 1 1/2 years, they brought their cat Beauty, we did the "your : room – their room" routine for a few weeks and introduced them, while there : was no real deep love exchanged, they tolerated her presence just fine, : actually the toleration was all show I think.  We came in from work/school : many times to find them playing, then utter a mild hiss when they realized : we were watching, I think it was an act!!  So I firmly believe that they : mostly learn to "feel family" through us, I know there are exceptions but I : have been fortunate enough not to have experienced it.  Mr. Turtle??? : Well, they don’t want in his bed (aquarium) and he does not want in theirs, : so that has never posed a problem – oh and he is now 19 years young, he will : outlive me I am sure. :

Response:

It does get a bit tricky…  I had Fumble for 9 years and Hannah for 8 1/2 years before bringing in Myrtle and Precious (they had been dumped and I could not leave them, it was over 100 degrees here then.)  I had to go through the your room, their room routine for a couple of months, there was a lot of arguing under the door through this.  Then I started introducing them during the day and trading places during the night, alternating which two slept with me.  Remember Fumble is very big!  Now 3 years later there are still some jealousies but they all sleep in my bed with me, each having their own spot, and that depends on the season.  I have a full bed, not a queen even .  They have most of the room but permit me a tiny corner on the upper right side, no more, no less.  They have worked it out beautifully, I think they know that it hurt my heart to isolate any of them at night when I was sure they all needed to feel close to me (of course, you all know it was the other way around!!).  G*d – I love these babies so much! I cannot imagine a day without them.  BTW, my golden retriever, Sadie, was the first to arrive, she mothered Fumble and Hannah like she had given birth to them.  After that, we were Sadie (dog) and Fumble and Hannah (cat-cat), then came Amber, my Holland Lop, Sadie also mothered her and the cats loved her, they played like sister and brother kitties (not bunnies) with Sadie tending to the lot of them.  When Fumble was around 2 and Hannah 1 1/2 we adopted Cindy, a seriously abused Aussie mix.  Since the cats and bunny had been around Sadie, she entered unnoticed by the cats and bunny.  Again, Sadie had a mission – mothering.  Then many years later came Myrtle and Precious.  Soon after my adopted daughter and granddaughter came to live with me for 1 1/2 years, they brought their cat Beauty, we did the "your room – their room" routine for a few weeks and introduced them, while there was no real deep love exchanged, they tolerated her presence just fine, actually the toleration was all show I think.  We came in from work/school many times to find them playing, then utter a mild hiss when they realized we were watching, I think it was an act!!  So I firmly believe that they mostly learn to "feel family" through us, I know there are exceptions but I have been fortunate enough not to have experienced it.  Mr. Turtle??? Well, they don’t want in his bed (aquarium) and he does not want in theirs, so that has never posed a problem – oh and he is now 19 years young, he will outlive me I am sure.

: I have to say last night was an experience with the two of them.  I got home : at 3:30 and let Marco out of his room and stirred Maya off the bed and the : games began.  It was like there was a cord attached to them.  Most of the : time they were 4 or 5 feet from the other.  They being cats and both mostly : Siamese were vocal and deathly afraid of missing something interesting one : or another was doing and I think it was a case of keeping your enemy closer. : The two main highlights of the night were Maya hissing and clawing at Marco : who was 5 feet away.  I was flashing to a Sanford and Son fight.  It was too : funny.  I have seen Maya in numerous fights with cats in deadly earnest and : I have never seen her do anything like that.  That more than anything made : me think they were building a real relationship here.  Neither would sleep : while the other was around and by ten I had two stubborn, tired and cranky : cats.  I decided not to lock Marco up in his room for the night but was : smart enough to go to bed early knowing it probably was not going to be that : easy.  Maya did her normal routine of sitting up on her wall watching me : brush my teeth and we went to bed.  Maya jumped up on the bed and settled : into her regular spot curled up on the covers between my legs.  Then Marco : came in.  Maya was NOT going to share the bed and after 20 minutes or so I : locked Marco in his room for the night, the poor little guy. : : : : :

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I have to say last night was an experience with the two of them.  I got home at 3:30 and let Marco out of his room and stirred Maya off the bed and the games began.  It was like there was a cord attached to them.  Most of the time they were 4 or 5 feet from the other.  They being cats and both mostly Siamese were vocal and deathly afraid of missing something interesting one or another was doing and I think it was a case of keeping your enemy closer. The two main highlights of the night were Maya hissing and clawing at Marco who was 5 feet away.  I was flashing to a Sanford and Son fight.  It was too funny.  I have seen Maya in numerous fights with cats in deadly earnest and I have never seen her do anything like that.  That more than anything made me think they were building a real relationship here.  Neither would sleep while the other was around and by ten I had two stubborn, tired and cranky cats.  I decided not to lock Marco up in his room for the night but was smart enough to go to bed early knowing it probably was not going to be that easy.  Maya did her normal routine of sitting up on her wall watching me brush my teeth and we went to bed.  Maya jumped up on the bed and settled into her regular spot curled up on the covers between my legs.  Then Marco came in.  Maya was NOT going to share the bed and after 20 minutes or so I locked Marco in his room for the night, the poor little guy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to say last night was an experience with the two of them.  I got home at 3:30 and let Marco out of his room and stirred Maya off the bed and the games began.  It was like there was a cord attached to them.  Most of the time they were 4 or 5 feet from the other.  They being cats and both mostly Siamese were vocal and deathly afraid of missing something interesting one or another was doing and I think it was a case of keeping your enemy closer. The two main highlights of the night were Maya hissing and clawing at Marco who was 5 feet away.  I was flashing to a Sanford and Son fight.  It was too funny.  I have seen Maya in numerous fights with cats in deadly earnest and I have never seen her do anything like that.  That more than anything made me think they were building a real relationship here.  Neither would sleep while the other was around and by ten I had two stubborn, tired and cranky cats.  I decided not to lock Marco up in his room for the night but was smart enough to go to bed early knowing it probably was not going to be that easy.  Maya did her normal routine of sitting up on her wall watching me brush my teeth and we went to bed.  Maya jumped up on the bed and settled into her regular spot curled up on the covers between my legs.  Then Marco came in.  Maya was NOT going to share the bed and after 20 minutes or so I locked Marco in his room for the night, the poor little guy.

Yeah, the nighttime sharing is the hardest. We have still not come to a real comfortable accord on this after 3 months. I expect that will always be the last bastion to cross. Karen

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

Will send heartfelt purrs for dumped kitty to be OK.   MLB & TuTu

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Purrs and purr-ayers are en route for the kitty to pass all his/her tests with flying colors, and for the new kitty and Angel to soon have forever homes. Donna, Captain, and Stanley

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I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting.

Purrs for this little one’s health and for Angel to be adopted to a loving home. –Fil

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

Purrs that the new *guest* is FIP/FeLV-free. Sam, closely supervised by Mistletoe

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Though I’m not a True Believer, I can’t help wishing I could be on hand to see Sherry (or any of the other frequent rescuers here) cross the Rainbow Bridge with a whole Pied Piper’s retinue of grateful and happy cats for escort.

That’s a beautiful image indeed. — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

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Sherry, Someone posted this to another list and it made me think of you. Thank you for taking care of the ‘lost’ ones! Patti  The Rescuer’s Quilt As I arrived at the Bridge, I faced all the animals who had gone there before me. Before each of us go to the Bridge, we live our lives like the squares of a quilt in many piles, mirrored in the eyes of the animals awaiting us. An animal Angel sits before each of us sewing our quilt squares together in a tapestry that is our life. But as my animal Angel took each piece of cloth off the pile, I noticed how ragged and empty each of my squares was. They were filled with giant holes. Each square was labeled with a part of my life as a rescuer that had been difficult, the challenges I was faced with in my quest to save lives and the times I had been tempted to take the easy way out and avoid the controversy rather than speak for the animals who could not speak for themselves. I saw hardships that I had endured for the sake of the animals, which were the largest holes of all. I glanced around me. Nobody else had such squares. Other than a tiny hole here and there, the other tapestries were filled with rich color and the bright hues of worldly fortune. I gazed upon my own life and was disheartened. My animal Angel was sewing the ragged pieces of cloth together, threadbare and empty, like binding air. Finally, the time came when each life was to be displayed, held up to the light, the scrutiny of truth. The others rose, each in turn, holding up their tapestries. So filled their lives had been with the riches of the Earth. My animal Angel looked upon me, and nodded for me to rise. My gaze dropped to the ground in shame. I hadn’t had all the earthly fortunes. I had love in my life, and laughter and the sweet kisses of the precious animals who honored my life with their presence. But there had also been the trials of illness, and death, and false accusations that took me from their world as I knew it. I had to start over many times. I often struggled with the temptation to quit, only to somehow muster the strength to pick  up and begin again. I spent many nights crying and praying that somehow the strength would come to go on, asking for help and guidance as I tried to help the helpless. I had often been held up to ridicule, which I endured painfully, each time enduring it for the sake of the animals who looked at me with trust and love in their eyes. And now, I had to face the truth. My life was what it was, and I had to accept it for what it was. I rose and slowly lifted the combined squares of my life to the light. An awe-filled gasp filled the air. I gazed around at the animals gathered there, who stared at me with wide eyes. Then, I looked upon the tapestry before me. Light flooded the many holes, creating an image of an animal who had depended on me. All the animals at the Bridge stood before me, with warmth and love in their eyes. They said, "Every time you gave over your life to help us, it gave us life. Each point of light in your life is when you stepped aside and let us shine through, until there was more of us than there was of you." May all our quilts be threadbare and worn, allowing the animals to shine through. Author Unknown

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sherry, Someone posted this to another list and it made me think of you. Thank you for taking care of the ‘lost’ ones! Patti  The Rescuer’s Quilt As I arrived at the Bridge, I faced all the animals who had gone there before me. Before each of us go to the Bridge, we live our lives like the squares of a quilt in many piles, mirrored in the eyes of the animals awaiting us. An animal Angel sits before each of us sewing our quilt squares together in a tapestry that is our life. But as my animal Angel took each piece of cloth off the pile, I noticed how ragged and empty each of my squares was. They were filled with giant holes. Each square was labeled with a part of my life as a rescuer that had been difficult, the challenges I was faced with in my quest to save lives and the times I had been tempted to take the easy way out and avoid the controversy rather than speak for the animals who could not speak for themselves. I saw hardships that I had endured for the sake of the animals, which were the largest holes of all. I glanced around me. Nobody else had such squares. Other than a tiny hole here and there, the other tapestries were filled with rich color and the bright hues of worldly fortune. I gazed upon my own life and was disheartened. My animal Angel was sewing the ragged pieces of cloth together, threadbare and empty, like binding air. Finally, the time came when each life was to be displayed, held up to the light, the scrutiny of truth. The others rose, each in turn, holding up their tapestries. So filled their lives had been with the riches of the Earth. My animal Angel looked upon me, and nodded for me to rise. My gaze dropped to the ground in shame. I hadn’t had all the earthly fortunes. I had love in my life, and laughter and the sweet kisses of the precious animals who honored my life with their presence. But there had also been the trials of illness, and death, and false accusations that took me from their world as I knew it. I had to start over many times. I often struggled with the temptation to quit, only to somehow muster the strength to pick  up and begin again. I spent many nights crying and praying that somehow the strength would come to go on, asking for help and guidance as I tried to help the helpless. I had often been held up to ridicule, which I endured painfully, each time enduring it for the sake of the animals who looked at me with trust and love in their eyes. And now, I had to face the truth. My life was what it was, and I had to accept it for what it was. I rose and slowly lifted the combined squares of my life to the light. An awe-filled gasp filled the air. I gazed around at the animals gathered there, who stared at me with wide eyes. Then, I looked upon the tapestry before me. Light flooded the many holes, creating an image of an animal who had depended on me. All the animals at the Bridge stood before me, with warmth and love in their eyes. They said, "Every time you gave over your life to help us, it gave us life. Each point of light in your life is when you stepped aside and let us shine through, until there was more of us than there was of you." May all our quilts be threadbare and worn, allowing the animals to shine through. Author Unknown

Thank you, Mishi. That brought tears to my eyes. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

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Yes, it truly is! BTW, Victor, did you get any of my emails (tried about 6 addresses (like what you got for your real addy) and I got failure notices from my own firewalls for outgoing mail but yet it looks like I "sent" you mail on OE. Help.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Though I’m not a True Believer, I can’t help wishing I could be on hand to see Sherry (or any of the other frequent rescuers here) cross the Rainbow Bridge with a whole Pied Piper’s retinue of grateful and happy cats for escort. That’s a beautiful image indeed. — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

I hope so, too, Sherry.  Purrs for things to be okay with this little lost one. Ginger-lyn Home Pages:   http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/   http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats)   http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy)   http://www.movieanimals.bravehost.com/ (The Violence Against                                              Animals in Movies Website)

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Good news that I want to tell kinda on this subject but didn’t want to start another thread–I called the shelter manager today to tell her I was bringing Angel on Monday. She said there are NO kittens down there. Zero kittens. And only about a dozen adults. This is a record for mid-summer! For two years we have been real aggressive about spay/neuter, and got a couple of grants for low-income spay/neuter, and have paid ourselves for our "worst offenders", the ones who bring us litters, to have their animals done. I wonder if this is the fruit from that program we are seeing. Anyway, if this new cat does end up there, it means it will have a really good chance of getting adopted quickly.

Wonderful news, Sherry! Purrs that this latest newcomer is alright, in spite of your fears, and that s/he and Angel are adopted soon. Also purrs of gratitude for everything you do for the feline population in your area. — Marina, Frank and Miranda. In loving memory of Nikki. marina (dot) kurten (at) iki (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so.

Many purrs on the way for the new kitty’s tests to come back showing a skinny, but otherwise healthy cat. That was my big fear when Spotty showed up with her kittens. The bitties looked healthy, except for the weepy eyes, but Spotty was so skinny and ragged looking – especially since she had that leg wound with a big bare spot where it had abcessed. — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB) Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

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I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. [..] So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry.

  Paws crossed this little fella tests negative. Good on you for rescuing him:)       Alison

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

Purrs for the poor little thing to be basically healthy. If not, at least he won’t suffer months of pain. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have no personal experience with this so please correct me if I’m wrong. Aren’t there people who have other FIP/FeLV positive cats who will adopt another one if it’s fairly socialized?  My reaction wouldn’t be immediately to have the cat put down even if he/she does test positive, unless it’s the vet’s professional recommendation.  But again, I don’t speak from experience on this issue.  Persia is the only cat I’ve ever been asked (by her) to take in. Purrs on the way for whatever the right descision may be for this young-un. Jill

If the cat has FIP, there’s really no cure for it (I believe, please correct me someone if I’m wrong) and it’s a pretty horrible death.  If the cat has FeLV on top of that, I would probably have him PTS.  There’s little chance he would be healthy.  Sometimes cats with FeLV can live a decent life, sometimes not.  The big problem is that it is much more transmittable than FIV.  FIV needs a deep bite wound, FeLV can be transferred through saliva and sharing of dishes.  We had a litter of FeLV+ kittens at the shelter last year.  Two are still alive, but one died a few months ago, didn’t even make it to one year old. It’s a very tough decision. -Kelly

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So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so.

Lots and lots of purrs for the little one to be healthy soon. — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

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Sherry purrs for you if you have to make this decision, it isn’t an easy one. Purrs that the cat isn’t positive. Suz&Spicey

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Aw, Sherry, thank you for taking care of all the lost ones dumped in your area.  You’ve many times over earned your place in heaven for what you do for them all.

Though I’m not a True Believer, I can’t help wishing I could be on hand to see Sherry (or any of the other frequent rescuers here) cross the Rainbow Bridge with a whole Pied Piper’s retinue of grateful and happy cats for escort. — Wayne M.

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Aw, Sherry, thank you for taking care of all the lost ones dumped in your area.  You’ve many times over earned your place in heaven for what you do for them all. Though I’m not a True Believer, I can’t help wishing I could be on hand to see Sherry (or any of the other frequent rescuers here) cross the Rainbow Bridge with a whole Pied Piper’s retinue of grateful and happy cats for escort.

That *would* be an inspiring sight to see.  Until then we can just imagine what it will be like and send purrs that Karma in this life will bring them very good fortune. Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Wayne M.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Theoretically you’re right, in a perfect world. An FeLV positive cat can live for many years and it’s perfectly fine to keep them, as long as there are no other FeLV-negative cats in the household, because they would likely become infected. The problem is, there is nobody willing (here) to foster or adopt an FeLV positive cat. There isn’t even enough people willing to foster healthy cats. I certainly can’t, because Yoda cannot be vaccinated and I can’t risk it. It might very well be healthy. But I’ve just seen so many of them, it’s just got that "look" to me.  I just already know that an FeLV+ cat would be impossible to place in either a forever home or a foster home. There’s too many homeless healthy ones here. I’m probably getting the cart before the horse, like I always do. I ought not to worry about it until I know whether I have something to worry about or not.

We had two FeLV+ cats some time ago.  Kind of before much was known about it.  Oddly the first to show symptoms was our stay at home five year old pure bred Siamese.  He didn’t live very long after that, but didn’t have a horrible death either.  We had our other stop in when I feel like it semi-feral tested at the same time.  She was positive, but healthy.  And more than like the one that infected the first cat.  She live nearly eight years.  Then just kind of faded out over a couple of days. We didn’t get another cat for several years until it got easier to keep a negative cat negative. Jo

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Good luck, Sherry. I have my fingers crossed for worms. Rhonda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

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I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

Aw, Sherry, thank you for taking care of all the lost ones dumped in your area.  You’ve many times over earned your place in heaven for what you do for them all. Mega purrs on the way that the poor little won will make it. Hugs, CatNipped

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV written all over it. It looks like a teenager, real skinny and just doesn’t look healthy. It’s skittish but not feral-acting. I put it in the garage, I don’t want the poor thing in the house around the other cats, not even in a bedroom. I guess I"ll take it to the vet on Monday and just try to feed it real well until then and tame it down. If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. Angel got her last shots and I am taking her down there Monday. It’s so frustrating. It’s like, always one step forward and 2 steps back. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

Purrs for your new wayward soul. I hope kitty is relatively healthy.

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I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV (snippage) If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry

I have no personal experience with this so please correct me if I’m wrong. Aren’t there people who have other FIP/FeLV positive cats who will adopt another one if it’s fairly socialized?  My reaction wouldn’t be immediately to have the cat put down even if he/she does test positive, unless it’s the vet’s professional recommendation.  But again, I don’t speak from experience on this issue.  Persia is the only cat I’ve ever been asked (by her) to take in. Purrs on the way for whatever the right descision may be for this young-un. Jill

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got another dumped cat. This one is sad. From the looks of it, it’s got FIP / FeLV (snippage) If it tests positive, I will probably have to put it down. If it doesn’t test positive I guess I’ll try to rehabilitate it and try to find it a home. So I guess I"m just asking for purrs that this kitten doesn’t have FeLV. I guess there is the possibility it’s just malnourished and wormy. I really hope so. Sherry I have no personal experience with this so please correct me if I’m wrong. Aren’t there people who have other FIP/FeLV positive cats who will adopt another one if it’s fairly socialized?  My reaction wouldn’t be immediately to have the cat put down even if he/she does test positive, unless it’s the vet’s professional recommendation.  But again, I don’t speak from experience on this issue.  Persia is the only cat I’ve ever been asked (by her) to take in. Purrs on the way for whatever the right descision may be for this young-un. Jill

Theoretically you’re right, in a perfect world. An FeLV positive cat can live for many years and it’s perfectly fine to keep them, as long as there are no other FeLV-negative cats in the household, because they would likely become infected. The problem is, there is nobody willing (here) to foster or adopt an FeLV positive cat. There isn’t even enough people willing to foster healthy cats. I certainly can’t, because Yoda cannot be vaccinated and I can’t risk it. It might very well be healthy. But I’ve just seen so many of them, it’s just got that "look" to me.  I just already know that an FeLV+ cat would be impossible to place in either a forever home or a foster home. There’s too many homeless healthy ones here. I’m probably getting the cart before the horse, like I always do. I ought not to worry about it until I know whether I have something to worry about or not. I forgot to mention, it is one of those cats that has big tabby splotches on a white coat. It has a real unusual face, a real pointy muzzle, short haired. Good news that I want to tell kinda on this subject but didn’t want to start another thread–I called the shelter manager today to tell her I was bringing Angel on Monday. She said there are NO kittens down there. Zero kittens. And only about a dozen adults. This is a record for mid-summer! For two years we have been real aggressive about spay/neuter, and got a couple of grants for low-income spay/neuter, and have paid ourselves for our "worst offenders", the ones who bring us litters, to have their animals done. I wonder if this is the fruit from that program we are seeing. Anyway, if this new cat does end up there, it means it will have a really good chance of getting adopted quickly. Sherry

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Question:

Anon_e_mouse a

Question:

Help !! Need info on anyone that can sponsor  for spay Need sponsors for spaying cats – Need to be done in one week (by 7/27/05) Please read:     My sister and I are trying to help a family that has been taking in strays, (but can’t really afford it) to find  homes for them. They have  forty cats / kittens.We have found homes for 2 moms and all the kittens, 6months and younger. We also found placements for the rest, but (15) the animals need to be spayed before the new homes will  accept  them. Hence the need for donations/ sponsors for spaying!     The local shelter came down on them and gave them 5 days to find homes or turn them in to the shelter .**** They will be euthanized as they are received by shelter (PAWS) as they can’t accomodate that many.*** We finally got a one week extension before they have to be turned in. So we are in dire need of help for our furry friends.     contact: or — Incase you haven’t heard, I sell Avon, & Mark. Please visit my site to look

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Help !! Need info on anyone that can sponsor  for spay So we are in dire need of help for our furry friends.    contact: or — Incase you haven’t heard, I sell Avon, & Mark. Please visit my site to http://sandihumphrey.home.mchsi.com

Sorry, but a bid from an unknown for money doesn’t sound good.  Especially when you add in a sales pitch at the end. Watch you wallets. Jo

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help !! Need info on anyone that can sponsor  for spay So we are in dire need of help for our furry friends.    contact: or — Sorry, but a bid from an unknown for money doesn’t sound good.  Especially when you add in a sales pitch at the end. Watch you wallets. Jo SORRY!! I forgot to delete my signature message !!!  I am  seeking help, not trying to steal money. I haven’t had to do something like this before and hadn’t thought about how to actually get  the money,  maybe list the vet and have payment sent to them??? Any suggestions?

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…SORRY!! I forgot to delete my signature message !!!  I am  seeking help, not trying to steal money. I haven’t had to do something like this before and hadn’t thought about how to actually get  the money,  maybe list the vet and have payment sent to them??? Any suggestions?

                        Storm, Thank you for wanting to help these cats. First, do whatever you can to enlist the help of rescue organizations in your area who will know local sources of low cost spay or neutering. Remember that these rescue groups also have limited resources, so they will be reluctant or unable to completely take over the situation for you. They need to know that you are not just dumping on them. But they will help however they can. It has to be mutual. Remember, that spay and neuter is not the end, but the beginning of a journey to find a home for these kitties.  The rescue organizations may be able to help in rehoming, also.  Maybe someone will help you assess the cats and what kind of home would be best for each cat’s needs.  Maybe they will display the cats at a local location. Enlist the help of the local news organizations. Take pictures of the cats and make posters with the explanation of what you are trying to do and put them up in veterinarian offices and anywhere else you think animal lovers might see them and be moved to help. Nobody with any sense will send any money directly to you because you posted something on the internet. If you decide to post a veterinarian as a contact, please check with them first to make sure they are willing to be listed and will take payments to apply to your rescue situation. Good luck, Annie .

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Annie: thank you for your advice.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …SORRY!! I forgot to delete my signature message !!!  I am  seeking help, not trying to steal money. I haven’t had to do something like this before and hadn’t thought about how to actually get  the money,  maybe list the vet and have payment sent to them??? Any suggestions? Storm, Thank you for wanting to help these cats. First, do whatever you can to enlist the help of rescue organizations in your area who will know local sources of low cost spay or neutering. Remember that these rescue groups also have limited resources, so they will be reluctant or unable to completely take over the situation for you. They need to know that you are not just dumping on them. But they will help however they can. It has to be mutual. Remember, that spay and neuter is not the end, but the beginning of a journey to find a home for these kitties.  The rescue organizations may be able to help in rehoming, also.  Maybe someone will help you assess the cats and what kind of home would be best for each cat’s needs.  Maybe they will display the cats at a local location. Enlist the help of the local news organizations. Take pictures of the cats and make posters with the explanation of what you are trying to do and put them up in veterinarian offices and anywhere else you think animal lovers might see them and be moved to help. Nobody with any sense will send any money directly to you because you posted something on the internet. If you decide to post a veterinarian as a contact, please check with them first to make sure they are willing to be listed and will take payments to apply to your rescue situation. Good luck, Annie .

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More information received about situation and how to handle any donations:  Our local shelter, Peoria Animal Welfare Shelter, (PAWS) is NOT a no- kill Shelter. Unfortunately, they have only given us a 1 week extension to place these animals ourselves, and to place them we must have them spayed or neutered. They ARE NOT ABLE to accept donations for us. We have been notified by the shelter that they have no room for any animals and all (even the nursingkittens) will be put down as soon as they arrive. Our deadline is FridayJuly 29, 2005. Any cats left will be euthanized. (hence the posting of the27th deadline, will give us a few days to get them to the Vet before they are taken from the family).  I have been working with a not for profit organization called CAWS (Citizens for Animal Welfare and Shelter), they have worked very hard for us, but their funds are running very low, and they can only do so much. They have helped us find homes for all the adults (but must be spay/neutered before can take them there), and an organization called "Friends of Strays" in Princeton, IL are going to be able to take both nursing mothers and babies along with 7 kittens that are 6 months and younger.  Donations can be sent to:  CAWS (Citizens for Animal Welfare and Shelter) Attn: Rebecca Matheny  104 S. 13th St.  Pekin, IL 61554-4945  They are licensed with the State of Illinois and registered with the  Illinois Attorney General, and are a 501 (C3) not for profit organization. Donations are Tax Deductible, please send a request with your donation if  you need a tax exempt letter and one will be sent.  OR  You can donate to the local Veterinary Clinic that helps the organization  with Spay and Neuter procedures.  Lang Animal Clinic Attn: CAWS  1305 Black Street  Pekin, IL 61554  They will be sure that the donations are credited to the account for these  animals.  This Veterinary Clinic gives CAWS a discounted price of $50.00 for a spay,  and $35.00 for a neuter, so a donation of $50.00 will be greatly appreciated  as most of the cats are female.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Annie: thank you for your advice. …SORRY!! I forgot to delete my signature message !!!  I am  seeking help, not trying to steal money. I haven’t had to do something like this before and hadn’t thought about how to actually get  the money,  maybe list the vet and have payment sent to them??? Any suggestions? Storm, Thank you for wanting to help these cats. First, do whatever you can to enlist the help of rescue organizations in your area who will know local sources of low cost spay or neutering. Remember that these rescue groups also have limited resources, so they will be reluctant or unable to completely take over the situation for you. They need to know that you are not just dumping on them. But they will help however they can. It has to be mutual. Remember, that spay and neuter is not the end, but the beginning of a journey to find a home for these kitties.  The rescue organizations may be able to help in rehoming, also.  Maybe someone will help you assess the cats and what kind of home would be best for each cat’s needs.  Maybe they will display the cats at a local location. Enlist the help of the local news organizations. Take pictures of the cats and make posters with the explanation of what you are trying to do and put them up in veterinarian offices and anywhere else you think animal lovers might see them and be moved to help. Nobody with any sense will send any money directly to you because you posted something on the internet. If you decide to post a veterinarian as a contact, please check with them first to make sure they are willing to be listed and will take payments to apply to your rescue situation. Good luck, Annie .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Donations can be sent to: CAWS (Citizens for Animal Welfare and Shelter) Attn: Rebecca Matheny 104 S. 13th St. Pekin, IL 61554-4945 OR You can donate to the local Veterinary Clinic that helps the organization with Spay and Neuter procedures. Lang Animal Clinic Attn: CAWS 1305 Black Street Pekin, IL 61554 They will be sure that the donations are credited to the account for these animals. This Veterinary Clinic gives CAWS a discounted price of $50.00 for a spay, and $35.00 for a neuter, … "storm"

Hi Storm, Congratulations on finding permanent and temporary homes for these kitties. That shows a great deal of effort and talent. I’m assuming that the people who have agreed to adopt the adults would be willing to pay for the spay or neuter and vaccinations. That is, after all, part of pet ownership. If they’re not willing or able to take on that expense, you have to wonder what they will do the first time the new cat gets a medical problem.  They might just take it to one of those places that will put the cat down. I hope it all works out O.K. with those placements, but I realize that you have a deadline to place a lot of cats at once and maybe have to take what you can get for now.  If some need to be rehomed for whatever reason, it will be unfortunate, but easier to deal with it later on an individual basis. How many cats do you have to have done?  I don’t have the original post. Again, good luck. I’ve done some rescues. For me it is extremely stressful, but satisfying to know that my efforts have done some good. Annie

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Question:

What a great story.  A similar thing happened with our last stray, Lancelot.  He also bit us (both my husband and I) and needed to be put into quarantine at the humane society….and we got a tetanis (sp?) shot and went on antibiotics.  He wasn’t taken care of very well… his fur was coming out in big clumps and he had respiratory illness.  But now he is a very loving cat…still learning how NOT to bite…but loving *smile*! Congratulations on doing a great job with Pirate!

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should have been…congratulations on what you did for Pirate AND Tucker. I’m making so many mistakes today *sigh*

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I know many of you are already familiar with Tucker’s tale but for new folks who’d like to know his story… Our backyard seems to have the hobo equivalent of "good eatin’" here marked somewhere on the Ponderosas — this probably has to do with the fact that I feed the birds, and, uh, also the little mice that come for the birdseed. This situation set me up for summer of 2003 when 3 strays started hanging out here — a large orange unneutered male; a small black unneutered male; and a sadly worn silver gray Persian type male.  They came to be known as Tucker, Robin and Pirate, respectively.  (At this time, my in-house masters were Midnight (former stray); Oreo (former stray); Omar (from Petsmart); and Shetra (eldercat, long-ago stray, now RB). Pirate wouldn’t let me get near him till much, much later in the summer. Robin let me pet him and was fairly friendly although skittish; and naiively I thought petting Tucker would be as "easy," too.  This proved to be a very erroneous assumption on my part; I found out the hard way that Tucker was just plain scared and defensive all the way to the bone.  I was actively leaning over to pet Tucker when Robin came up behind me and spooked Tucker; I immediately received a deep bite on my right hand right near the knuckle at the base of my thumb.  First, I cried because my feelings were so hurt; then I cried because the bite hurt (!) and I knew I was in deep trouble and had to go to urgent care.  To make a long story short, Tucker ended up in quarantine at my vet’s with the understanding from the Animal Control officer that I could claim him as my cat once he was through the quarantine. I ended up with several trips to urgent care that weekend and Augmentin plus two hefty shots of Rocephin in the derrierre. I visited Tucker everyday at the vet and talked to him; he was sooo scared. I promised him I would not desert him because I knew his only chance was with me if I could figure out how to work with him.  By this point it was obvious that he was not just a stray but feral.  I had bought another cat "playpen" (a 3 x 4 wire cage with little platforms) to put Tucker in — let’s just say I made more mistakes and gave Tucker catnip and managed to get myself bit again!  I ended up crying in my doctor’s office and she was a kind person and gave me the antibiotics I needed (again with oral and shots) without "remembering" to file a bite report (two strikes and I think animal control would’ve put him down.). I came and poured my heart out on this newsgroup and just despaired of what to do. In addition to all the moral support and encouragement I received from the nice folk here I was so very lucky to have my post read by an online cat rescuer who basically mentored me for months on her phone bill with positive useful information on how to rehabilitate and work with a feral cat.  At the same time that this was all going on with Tucker, I’d taken in Robin (who adapted to our other cats within 2 weeks) and was trying to figure out what to do about Pirate.Actions speak louder than words–if it weren’t for this cat rescue lady’s very real willingness to commit to helping me see this situation through, neither Tucker nor Pirate’s story would’ve had a happy ending.  With her expertise, patience (with my ignorance), and behind-the-scenes positive recommendations my daughter and I were able to bring Tucker along to where he is today.  Now as regular posters on this group know, our five-kitty household is not the happy cozy household of purrfectly attuned purrsonalities; however, we’re doing okay because of all I have learned.  When I do have questions about cat care, I call my friend who helped me save these furballs. And the side story about Pirate is that with this lady’s continued help, that fall of 2003,  I was able to capture Pirate and find a wonderful loving home for him; this was harder than it might have been because Pirate turned out to be FIV+, so I was looking for a home for a special needs cat.  This cat rescuer helped me write the flyer that helped explain his plight and we were very lucky because one of the rescue groups that I took that flyer to remembered Pirate’s story when she met a couple who were looking for another FIV+  cat to adopt! regards, Christine photo album link to kitties: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/cfbureltoo/my_photos

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Just caught this on RPCA. My mom is doing better, but still not well. They are calling in an infectious disease specialist today to try to figure out what’s going on. Perhaps next week we’ll see an update on Conan. Perhaps not. But whenever that update is released, I am not going to feel pressured by Mary or anyone else to see that cat put into a situation that is not appropriate for him. And as for Mary’s adoption fee, I sent that back to her via PayPal before she started her current spew-fest. So her spew-fest is not about money any more than it’s about cats. I’ve given up hope of Mary or the other hate-mongers thinking about what’s best for the cat, as well as hope of them ever starting to behave like rational grown adults. I have been pretty well ignoring the spew posts as well as the followups, but seeing Howard’s name on some of the replies got me to look this morning – I do love Howard’s messages! But I will now return to my policy of deleting all posts on this subject without reading them. Dan IT’S OFFICIAL!  DAN IS A DOUCHEBAG!

lol! How did I get to be a bad guy, just by figuring out that he lied? Hilarious. So, my dear adversaries, everything I have been saying is true, and the man himself admits it. And, it seems Monica is not in charge at all, as she does not have physical possession of the cat. My objective was to get Dan to admit it, and he kindly obliged. He has taken responsibility for his actions. Those of you who assert that I cannot make him have mercy on Conan/Dylan and get him out of that cage are right. If Dan had merely been man enough to tell us that he did not want to do as he promised, I would never have had to drag this into the groups. All he had to do is answer my emails, but since he didn’t, I had to take it public. Sorry rpca people, I just had to squeeze him until he admitted that he is indeed a liar who betrayed our trust. Consider it my gift to you–to demonstrate that he is dishonest and untrustworthy before he has a chance to lie to you. I am not sorry I gave to the Harri vet fund. I would do that for anyone. I am not sorry I  trusted Dan, either. I am only sorry that Conan went from one cage to another instead of to a home. I did my best–as we all did. It is in Dan’s hands now.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Just caught this on RPCA. My mom is doing better, but still not well. They are calling in an infectious disease specialist today to try to figure out what’s going on. Perhaps next week we’ll see an update on Conan. Perhaps not. But whenever that update is released, I am not going to feel pressured by Mary or anyone else to see that cat put into a situation that is not appropriate for him. And as for Mary’s adoption fee, I sent that back to her via PayPal before she started her current spew-fest. So her spew-fest is not about money any more than it’s about cats. I’ve given up hope of Mary or the other hate-mongers thinking about what’s best for the cat, as well as hope of them ever starting to behave like rational grown adults. I have been pretty well ignoring the spew posts as well as the followups, but seeing Howard’s name on some of the replies got me to look this morning – I do love Howard’s messages! But I will now return to my policy of deleting all posts on this subject without reading them. Dan IT’S OFFICIAL!  DAN IS A DOUCHEBAG! lol! How did I get to be a bad guy, just by figuring out that he lied? Hilarious. So, my dear adversaries, everything I have been saying is true, and the man himself admits it. And, it seems Monica is not in charge at all, as she does not have physical possession of the cat. My objective was to get Dan to admit it, and he kindly obliged. He has taken responsibility for his actions. Those of you who assert that I cannot make him have mercy on Conan/Dylan and get him out of that cage are right. If Dan had merely been man enough to tell us that he did not want to do as he promised, I would never have had to drag this into the groups. All he had to do is answer my emails, but since he didn’t, I had to take it public. Sorry rpca people, I just had to squeeze him until he admitted that he is indeed a liar who betrayed our trust. Consider it my gift to you–to demonstrate that he is dishonest and untrustworthy before he has a chance to lie to you.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Just caught this on RPCA. My mom is doing better, but still not well. They are calling in an infectious disease specialist today to try to figure out what’s going on. Perhaps next week we’ll see an update on Conan. Perhaps not. But whenever that update is released, I am not going to feel pressured by Mary or anyone else to see that cat put into a situation that is not appropriate for him. And as for Mary’s adoption fee, I sent that back to her via PayPal before she started her current spew-fest. So her spew-fest is not about money any more than it’s about cats. I’ve given up hope of Mary or the other hate-mongers thinking about what’s best for the cat, as well as hope of them ever starting to behave like rational grown adults. I have been pretty well ignoring the spew posts as well as the followups, but seeing Howard’s name on some of the replies got me to look this morning – I do love Howard’s messages! But I will now return to my policy of deleting all posts on this subject without reading them. Dan IT’S OFFICIAL!  DAN IS A DOUCHEBAG! lol! How did I get to be a bad guy, just by figuring out that he lied? Hilarious. So, my dear adversaries, everything I have been saying is true, and the man himself admits it. And, it seems Monica is not in charge at all, as she does not have physical possession of the cat. My objective was to get Dan to admit it, and he kindly obliged. He has taken responsibility for his actions. Those of you who assert that I cannot make him have mercy on Conan/Dylan and get him out of that cage are right. If Dan had merely been man enough to tell us that he did not want to do as he promised, I would never have had to drag this into the groups. All he had to do is answer my emails, but since he didn’t, I had to take it public. Sorry rpca people, I just had to squeeze him until he admitted that he is indeed a liar who betrayed our trust. Consider it my gift to you–to demonstrate that he is dishonest and untrustworthy before he has a chance to lie to you.

That is your choice. He has admitted that he lied to all of us and has not given a believable reason for it. As long as your decision is an informed one I did my job.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, take a look at his follow up post. He started getting threatening letters and phone calls. I’d say he was absolutely right to just stop communicating. That was BEFORE the (OMG *GASP* NO) resuce of Conan from the KILL shelter. If you are going to kiss and tell. Tell all yourself. He also didn’t say that he knew who was communicating with him BEFORE he went for Conan. Maybe it was the same people who were calling the shelter and trying to put the kibosh on the whole rescue NOT Mary or anyone that was trying to work with her to rescue this cat. It makes no logical sense otherwise. What possible motive would Mary have to threaten Dan at that point. Dan didn’t stop communicating at that point either. He wove that wonderful story about getting to the shelter too late and then he stopped communicating. Ya know a simple, I got the cat, I’m being threatened and don’t want any further involvement and a mail rule blocking incoming would have done the trick without the drama and still maintained credibility. But that’s just my 2

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dulce Mae is such a sweet and sociable cat, who very intensely studies the Things We Do.  http://tinyurl.com/8sn4d or  http://home.comcast.net/~Mark-Edwards/files/html/DulceMae.htm When I turn on the lights, she is studying how I do it. When I turn on the water, she studies how I do that. When I was sitting in front of the fridge, reloading it with Diet Coke, she studied the inside of the fridge, watched how I removed the sodas from their cartons, and basically made sure that I was doing everything correctly. She allows me to cuddle her (briefly), but follows me around and asks for head skritches when I get to my destination, and is somewhat vocal. She hops around lie a bunny, whenever she runs, and when she gets up on the coffee table, she high-steps over things instead of just plowing through and knocking things off, like Buster does. All in all, she is just a delightfully lovable girl. Nearly a year later, I can’t help but wonder how her previous slaves could have possibly abandoned her when they moved. I am simply unable to understand how they could do that. She is such a delightful part of our home, ever since she allowed us to adopt her. Well, in this case, their unconscionable loss is our gain. Hugs and Purrs, Mark

She’s a very pretty girl.  But I don’t know about all this studying you . . . Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

Dulce Mae is such a sweet and sociable cat, who very intensely studies the Things We Do.

She is lovely. And I am glad to hear you have a serious supervisor! — CATherine

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dulce Mae is such a sweet and sociable cat, who very intensely studies the Things We Do.   http://tinyurl.com/8sn4d or   http://home.comcast.net/~Mark-Edwards/files/html/DulceMae.htm When I turn on the lights, she is studying how I do it. When I turn on the water, she studies how I do that. When I was sitting in front of the fridge, reloading it with Diet Coke, she studied the inside of the fridge, watched how I removed the sodas from their cartons, and basically made sure that I was doing everything correctly. She allows me to cuddle her (briefly), but follows me around and asks for head skritches when I get to my destination, and is somewhat vocal. She hops around lie a bunny, whenever she runs, and when she gets up on the coffee table, she high-steps over things instead of just plowing through and knocking things off, like Buster does. All in all, she is just a delightfully lovable girl. Nearly a year later, I can’t help but wonder how her previous slaves could have possibly abandoned her when they moved. I am simply unable to understand how they could do that. She is such a delightful part of our home, ever since she allowed us to adopt her. Well, in this case, their unconscionable loss is our gain. Hugs and Purrs, Mark

I know what you mean, Mark.  I have the same thoughts about Nanki-Poo.  He is such a sweet, loving cuddler, and it’s fun to watch him play and hear his squeals that have earned him the nickname "Squealy-boy".  It’s funny – at first, he would cuddle on the bed all night.  Then he got more independent. Still, he comes up for a cuddle at some time during most nights.  If he misses a night – or I’m sleeping too deeply to know when he comes up – I talk to him the next day, reminding me that I need my nighttime bed-cuddle. He always comes up the night after one of those talks. You and Dulce Mae are lucky to have found each other, and so are Nanki-Poo and I. Joy

Response:

[[Nearly a year later, I can't help but wonder how her previous slaves could have possibly abandoned her when they moved. I am simply unable to understand how they could do that. She is such a delightful part of our home, ever since she allowed us to adopt her. Well, in this case, their unconscionable loss is our gain.]] What a beautiful cat! I’m with you — how could her previous humans (and I use the term ‘humans’ loosely) just abandon her? Or ANY pet, never mind one as beautiful and personable as this one? The actions of some (again, using this term loosely) humans boggles my mind. Their loss, and if they didn’t truly appreciate her, they didn’t deserve her anyway. Your gain, and indirectly the rest of RPCA’s gain, as well. Donna, Captain, and Stanley

Response:

[[She could be Panther's sister, except that her eyes are rounder than his. But Pan too is a black cat with a little white dab on his chest.]] That was Harmony(RB)’s marking, too — she was a solid black cat with a white coin under her throat. Between the fact that she and Melody (also RB) were black kitties, I have a special soft spot for black cats. ) Donna, currently spoiling the stripey boys known as Captain and Stanley

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dulce Mae is such a sweet and sociable cat, who very intensely studies the Things We Do.   http://tinyurl.com/8sn4d or   http://home.comcast.net/~Mark-Edwards/files/html/DulceMae.htm When I turn on the lights, she is studying how I do it. When I turn on the water, she studies how I do that. When I was sitting in front of the fridge, reloading it with Diet Coke, she studied the inside of the fridge, watched how I removed the sodas from their cartons, and basically made sure that I was doing everything correctly. She allows me to cuddle her (briefly), but follows me around and asks for head skritches when I get to my destination, and is somewhat vocal. She hops around lie a bunny, whenever she runs, and when she gets up on the coffee table, she high-steps over things instead of just plowing through and knocking things off, like Buster does. All in all, she is just a delightfully lovable girl. Nearly a year later, I can’t help but wonder how her previous slaves could have possibly abandoned her when they moved. I am simply unable to understand how they could do that. She is such a delightful part of our home, ever since she allowed us to adopt her. Well, in this case, their unconscionable loss is our gain. Hugs and Purrs, Mark

She is beautiful.   MLB

Response:

Well, in this case, their unconscionable loss is our gain.

It certainly is. Maybe Dulce Mae realized there were better slaves out there who were more  worthy of her love and devotion, and now she’s proving her dedication to you. Hugs and Purrs, Mark She sure looks a lot like Pearl. I’m so glad she finally convinced you she was permanent

She could be Panther’s sister, except that her eyes are rounder than his. But Pan too is a black cat with a little white dab on his chest. Melissa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dulce Mae is such a sweet and sociable cat, who very intensely studies the Things We Do. http://tinyurl.com/8sn4d or http://home.comcast.net/~Mark-Edwards/files/html/DulceMae.htm When I turn on the lights, she is studying how I do it. When I turn on the water, she studies how I do that. When I was sitting in front of the fridge, reloading it with Diet Coke, she studied the inside of the fridge, watched how I removed the sodas from their cartons, and basically made sure that I was doing everything correctly. She allows me to cuddle her (briefly), but follows me around and asks for head skritches when I get to my destination, and is somewhat vocal. She hops around lie a bunny, whenever she runs, and when she gets up on the coffee table, she high-steps over things instead of just plowing through and knocking things off, like Buster does. All in all, she is just a delightfully lovable girl. Nearly a year later, I can’t help but wonder how her previous slaves could have possibly abandoned her when they moved. I am simply unable to understand how they could do that. She is such a delightful part of our home, ever since she allowed us to adopt her. Well, in this case, their unconscionable loss is our gain. Hugs and Purrs, Mark

She sure looks a lot like Pearl. I’m so glad she finally convinced you she was permanent

Response:

Dulce Mae is such a sweet and sociable cat, who very intensely studies the Things We Do.   http://tinyurl.com/8sn4d or   http://home.comcast.net/~Mark-Edwards/files/html/DulceMae.htm

What a lovely, shiny girl!!

Response: