Question:
Are you seriously suggesting keeping dirty clothes from a third world country? The child may have a natural immunity to assorted "bugs" now, but you don’t, and after a few years the child’s immunity may be lost. If you must keep old clothes, at least make sure they are properly washed and maybe fumigated. The Black Death, in Britain, is said to have come into the country in old clothes. (It was carried by fleas that bite infected black rats and humans). After all, one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country, even if bought new. Geopelia
Flea from the wrath to come! Rh. ‘Here comes Ali’s camel in his filthy cotton shorts’ Bonzo Dog Band
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip It’s the kid they should be testing for TB, Aids etc, not the clothes. Before or after? Do you know *anything* about intercountry adoption? You seemed to take issue with the idea that anyone would bring home the child’s original clothes because they would be unhygienic. And didn’t you say the following about NEW clothes that were manufactured in a poor country: "Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc." And this: "If you can’t drink the water in a poor country, or eat their food, surely you should wash their clothes?" You have very strange ideas, indeed. Helen You are the strange one, I’m simply concerned about cleanliness, comfort and wearability.
And what, pray, has any of this got to do with adopting a child from overseas? Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geopelia Geopelia
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy. Particularly when there is nothing to hold up. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!) D’you know something? – you sound like someone playing the part of a drag queen. (A *real* one wouldn’t be so crass) ‘Stupid eejit’ comes to mind, but that is rather too mild…. *Feck off* is probably more appropriate. Helen Oh dear, and all I was doing was pointing out some elementary hygiene! Nothing "elementary" about your descriptions of the quality of elastic in their underwear and the scratchiness of their bras, just ignorance – and your idea of "hygiene" causes me a slight concern that you might suffer from an OCD. If you can’t drink the water in a poor country, or eat their food, surely you should wash their clothes? I have drunk water all over the place – using common sense, of course – and have "eaten their food" with no ill effects. Why on Earth should I "wash their clothes"? Countries may be poor but their people are not uncivilised – far from it. You might learn a considerable amount from them if you took your head out of your underwear. Children adopted from these countries would surely have a health check for endemic diseases – T.B., scabies, Aids etc? For a start, you are more likely to contract TB from travelling in a plane than by wearing clothes that were manufactured in another country. To the best of my knowledge, scabies *itself* is not a *disease* per se – it is a *mite* that burrows into the skin, causing intense itching. I could be wrong, but I don’t think it lives too long without a host. AIDs is a disease of the immune system, caused by infection with the retrovirus HIV. It is not transmitted by wearing clothes manufactured *anywhere*. HIV is transmitted by particular contact with infected blood or body fluids. It doesn’t survive more than a few hours outside the body so the idea that you can get it from clothing manufactured in another country is simply bizarre. So why take the risk of keeping unwashed clothes? The "risk" is all in your tiny little head. <snip It’s the kid they should be testing for TB, Aids etc, not the clothes. Before or after? Do you know *anything* about intercountry adoption? You seemed to take issue with the idea that anyone would bring home the child’s original clothes because they would be unhygienic. And didn’t you say the following about NEW clothes that were manufactured in a poor country: "Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc." And this: "If you can’t drink the water in a poor country, or eat their food, surely you should wash their clothes?" You have very strange ideas, indeed. Helen
You are the strange one, I’m simply concerned about cleanliness, comfort and wearability. Geopelia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geopelia
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy. Particularly when there is nothing to hold up. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!) D’you know something? – you sound like someone playing the part of a drag queen. (A *real* one wouldn’t be so crass) ‘Stupid eejit’ comes to mind, but that is rather too mild…. *Feck off* is probably more appropriate. Helen Oh dear, and all I was doing was pointing out some elementary hygiene! Nothing "elementary" about your descriptions of the quality of elastic in their underwear and the scratchiness of their bras, just ignorance – and your idea of "hygiene" causes me a slight concern that you might suffer from an OCD. If you can’t drink the water in a poor country, or eat their food, surely you should wash their clothes? I have drunk water all over the place – using common sense, of course – and have "eaten their food" with no ill effects. Why on Earth should I "wash their clothes"? Countries may be poor but their people are not uncivilised – far from it. You might learn a considerable amount from them if you took your head out of your underwear. Children adopted from these countries would surely have a health check for endemic diseases – T.B., scabies, Aids etc? For a start, you are more likely to contract TB from travelling in a plane than by wearing clothes that were manufactured in another country. To the best of my knowledge, scabies *itself* is not a *disease* per se – it is a *mite* that burrows into the skin, causing intense itching. I could be wrong, but I don’t think it lives too long without a host. AIDs is a disease of the immune system, caused by infection with the retrovirus HIV. It is not transmitted by wearing clothes manufactured *anywhere*. HIV is transmitted by particular contact with infected blood or body fluids. It doesn’t survive more than a few hours outside the body so the idea that you can get it from clothing manufactured in another country is simply bizarre. So why take the risk of keeping unwashed clothes? The "risk" is all in your tiny little head. <snip It’s the kid they should be testing for TB, Aids etc, not the clothes.
Before or after? Do you know *anything* about intercountry adoption? You seemed to take issue with the idea that anyone would bring home the child’s original clothes because they would be unhygienic. And didn’t you say the following about NEW clothes that were manufactured in a poor country: "Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc." And this: "If you can’t drink the water in a poor country, or eat their food, surely you should wash their clothes?" You have very strange ideas, indeed. Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geopelia
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And what is the reason "one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country..?" Finally – I was puzzled by the addition of "… even if bought new." What other options are there? Used undies? Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc. Would you EVER get a grip? What a load of shite, if you don’t mind my vulgarity. But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy. Particularly when there is nothing to hold up. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!) D’you know something? – you sound like someone playing the part of a drag queen. (A *real* one wouldn’t be so crass) ‘Stupid eejit’ comes to mind, but that is rather too mild…. *Feck off* is probably more appropriate. Helen Oh dear, and all I was doing was pointing out some elementary hygiene! Nothing "elementary" about your descriptions of the quality of elastic in their underwear and the scratchiness of their bras, just ignorance – and your idea of "hygiene" causes me a slight concern that you might suffer from an OCD. If you can’t drink the water in a poor country, or eat their food, surely you should wash their clothes? I have drunk water all over the place – using common sense, of course – and have "eaten their food" with no ill effects. Why on Earth should I "wash their clothes"? Countries may be poor but their people are not uncivilised – far from it. You might learn a considerable amount from them if you took your head out of your underwear. Children adopted from these countries would surely have a health check for endemic diseases – T.B., scabies, Aids etc? For a start, you are more likely to contract TB from travelling in a plane than by wearing clothes that were manufactured in another country. To the best of my knowledge, scabies *itself* is not a *disease* per se – it is a *mite* that burrows into the skin, causing intense itching. I could be wrong, but I don’t think it lives too long without a host. AIDs is a disease of the immune system, caused by infection with the retrovirus HIV. It is not transmitted by wearing clothes manufactured *anywhere*. HIV is transmitted by particular contact with infected blood or body fluids. It doesn’t survive more than a few hours outside the body so the idea that you can get it from clothing manufactured in another country is simply bizarre. So why take the risk of keeping unwashed clothes? The "risk" is all in your tiny little head. What have drag queens got to do with anything? Your seeming obsession with aspects of female underwear just caused a thought to flit across my mind – don’t worry, it is of no consequence at all. (Should they adopt children – now there’s a thought!) Why not, if they are assessed as being suitable parenting material? You won’t get me in makeup and stilettos, and their fishnet stockings wouldn’t even keep out mozzie bites. I’ll stick to T shirts, shorts and gumboots, thank you! Yeah – well T shirts and shorts won’t keep the mozzies away. You might be better off dressed head to toe in good quality Indian cotton. Helen
It’s the kid they should be testing for TB, Aids etc, not the clothes. Geopelia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geopelia Geopelia Julia More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site:
www.adoptioninstitute.org. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And what is the reason "one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country..?" Finally – I was puzzled by the addition of "… even if bought new." What other options are there? Used undies? Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc. Would you EVER get a grip? What a load of shite, if you don’t mind my vulgarity. But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy. Particularly when there is nothing to hold up. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!) D’you know something? – you sound like someone playing the part of a drag queen. (A *real* one wouldn’t be so crass) ‘Stupid eejit’ comes to mind, but that is rather too mild…. *Feck off* is probably more appropriate. Helen Oh dear, and all I was doing was pointing out some elementary hygiene!
Nothing "elementary" about your descriptions of the quality of elastic in their underwear and the scratchiness of their bras, just ignorance – and your idea of "hygiene" causes me a slight concern that you might suffer from an OCD. If you can’t drink the water in a poor country, or eat their food, surely you should wash their clothes?
I have drunk water all over the place – using common sense, of course – and have "eaten their food" with no ill effects. Why on Earth should I "wash their clothes"? Countries may be poor but their people are not uncivilised – far from it. You might learn a considerable amount from them if you took your head out of your underwear. Children adopted from these countries would surely have a health check for endemic diseases – T.B., scabies, Aids etc?
For a start, you are more likely to contract TB from travelling in a plane than by wearing clothes that were manufactured in another country. To the best of my knowledge, scabies *itself* is not a *disease* per se – it is a *mite* that burrows into the skin, causing intense itching. I could be wrong, but I don’t think it lives too long without a host. AIDs is a disease of the immune system, caused by infection with the retrovirus HIV. It is not transmitted by wearing clothes manufactured *anywhere*. HIV is transmitted by particular contact with infected blood or body fluids. It doesn’t survive more than a few hours outside the body so the idea that you can get it from clothing manufactured in another country is simply bizarre. So why take the risk of keeping unwashed clothes?
The "risk" is all in your tiny little head. What have drag queens got to do with anything?
Your seeming obsession with aspects of female underwear just caused a thought to flit across my mind – don’t worry, it is of no consequence at all. (Should they adopt children – now there’s a thought!)
Why not, if they are assessed as being suitable parenting material? You won’t get me in makeup and stilettos, and their fishnet stockings wouldn’t even keep out mozzie bites. I’ll stick to T shirts, shorts and gumboots, thank you!
Yeah – well T shirts and shorts won’t keep the mozzies away. You might be better off dressed head to toe in good quality Indian cotton. Helen Geopelia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geopelia Julia More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site: www.adoptioninstitute.org. The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And what is the reason "one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country..?" Finally – I was puzzled by the addition of "… even if bought new." What other options are there? Used undies? Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc. Would you EVER get a grip? What a load of shite, if you don’t mind my vulgarity. But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy. Particularly when there is nothing to hold up. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!) D’you know something? – you sound like someone playing the part of a drag queen. (A *real* one wouldn’t be so crass) ‘Stupid eejit’ comes to mind, but that is rather too mild…. *Feck off* is probably more appropriate. Helen
Oh dear, and all I was doing was pointing out some elementary hygiene! If you can’t drink the water in a poor country, or eat their food, surely you should wash their clothes? Children adopted from these countries would surely have a health check for endemic diseases – T.B., scabies, Aids etc? So why take the risk of keeping unwashed clothes? What have drag queens got to do with anything? (Should they adopt children – now there’s a thought!) You won’t get me in makeup and stilettos, and their fishnet stockings wouldn’t even keep out mozzie bites. I’ll stick to T shirts, shorts and gumboots, thank you! Geopelia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geopelia Julia More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site: www.adoptioninstitute.org. The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you seriously suggesting keeping dirty clothes from a third world country? The child may have a natural immunity to assorted "bugs" now, but you don’t, and after a few years the child’s immunity may be lost. If you must keep old clothes, at least make sure they are properly washed and maybe fumigated. The Black Death, in Britain, is said to have come into the country in old clothes. (It was carried by fleas that bite infected black rats and humans). After all, one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country, even if bought new. Geopelia I think it was pretty good advice, and we kept our kids clothes as were without any need to fumigate anything (the kids needed fumigating more than their clothes but that is another story). And what is the reason "one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country..?" Finally – I was puzzled by the addition of "… even if bought new." What other options are there? Used undies? Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc. Do you autoclave them before use just to make sure? IMO this level of paranoia over possible contagion is nonsensical. If you are this concerned about clothing, it would be interesting to see how you would manage actual travel in developing countries.
In days of yore, long, long, *long* ago, when I travelled quite a lot – including to various parts of India – I never had any problems with insects, except in the United States! I was almost *eaten alive* by mosquitoes in Tampa, Florida, and I still have some marks on my legs, as souvenirs. The MOST rats I ever saw in one place was in the port area of New Orleans. **Millions** of them, packed shoulder to shoulder, all looking at me and squeaking. Yes, I too thought of bubonic plague… If we followed geopelia’s reasoning we would have to treat every stitch that we buy as second-hand clothes, because so much – and even so-called designer labels – are manufactured in third-world sweatshops. An abiding memory I have of India is the absolute cleanliness of even the poorest of the poor. Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Julia But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!) Geopelia Julia More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site: www.adoptioninstitute.org. The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Adoption odyessy In the world of adoption travel, flexibility is key and preparation is just about everything else: Choose scrupulous agencies, sharpen skills of consumerism, learn about host countries and listen to the words of wisdom of those who have gone before. at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-10862632.htm What to do while traveling at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-54266878.htm Never underestimate the power of word of mouth. Here, parents and adoption specialists pass on their more valuable nuggets about international adoption travel: "Ask agencies what kind of services are provided. It needs to be absolutely transparent, itemized and broken down, and you should be able to identify what those costs are. Are you audited every year? What’s your mission statement? When we travel, what kind of support will we have? Will we have training ahead of time? Will we be traveling alone or with a group of other parents? Do you have your own medical staff in that country?" — Susan Cox, Holt International Children’s Services "It turned out to be a good thing to be paired up with other adoptive parents [traveling to pick up their children]. Play off their good points. Ours was a schoolteacher. She helped us get through airports, et cetera, and plus she knew how to help us with the children. Being an accountant, I could tell when someone was being overcharged or something like that." — John Suttora, adoptive parent (Kazakhstan) "Make sure you’re up to date on hepatitis and tetanus shots, if you need them, which take some time. They’re a series of shots. We basically started them when we started the adoption process. I always carried my vaccination records in my travel documents, clipped to the back of my passport." — Antonia Siebert, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "I always recommend people get some sort of [medical-evacuation] insurance, especially traveling to a Third World country. It’s not expensive at all. You can find them online easily enough; SOS is one that comes to mind. When I was a Peace Corps volunteer, we all had it. You want to have an option." — Bill Strassberger, Immigration and Naturalization Service "Because it was my second time adopting, I knew that typically with Asian countries at least, the agency staff want to pick you up and take you to the orphanage right away when you arrive. The first time I did that, but I found that after a 33-hour trip I wanted a night’s sleep. I needed to get my bearings and my sea legs before I got my baby." — Kathy Rafferty, adoptive parent (Cambodia) "It’s really important not to drink the water. One family put hotel ice in their drink. They were so sick I don’t know how they made it home — they were the sickest I’ve ever seen anyone. You really have to drink bottled water and also use it for the baby’s bottles." — Bonnie Horowitz, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "A major bad thing that happened to us: When we were flying back, we put our video camera in our luggage. The video camera went missing, including the tape. The camera could be replaced, but the tape was all the video we’d taken [in the country], including his foster mom saying goodbye. It’s all gone. It still upsets me." — Antonia Siebert, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "You can never go back to that time, even if you go to the country every year. Keep a journal. The memories will become more precious as time goes by. Once you see your child, don’t ever wash the clothes they were in. Let those smells and essence always be." — Susan Cox, Holt International Children’s Services Are you seriously suggesting keeping dirty clothes from a third world country? The child may have a natural immunity to assorted "bugs" now, but you don’t, and after a few years the child’s immunity may be lost. If you must keep old clothes, at least make sure they are properly washed and maybe fumigated. The Black Death, in Britain, is said to have come into the country in old clothes. (It was carried by fleas that bite infected black rats and humans). After all, one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country, even if bought new. Geopelia I think it was pretty good advice, and we kept our kids clothes as were without any need to fumigate anything (the kids needed fumigating more than their clothes but that is another story). And what is the reason "one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country..?" Finally – I was puzzled by the addition of "… even if bought new." What other options are there? Used undies? Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc.
Do you autoclave them before use just to make sure? IMO this level of paranoia over possible contagion is nonsensical. If you are this concerned about clothing, it would be interesting to see how you would manage actual travel in developing countries. Julia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!) Geopelia Julia More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site: www.adoptioninstitute.org. The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And what is the reason "one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country..?" Finally – I was puzzled by the addition of "… even if bought new." What other options are there? Used undies? Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc.
Would you EVER get a grip? What a load of shite, if you don’t mind my vulgarity. But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy.
Particularly when there is nothing to hold up. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!)
D’you know something? – you sound like someone playing the part of a drag queen. (A *real* one wouldn’t be so crass) ‘Stupid eejit’ comes to mind, but that is rather too mild…. *Feck off* is probably more appropriate. Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geopelia Julia More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site: www.adoptioninstitute.org. The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Adoption odyessy In the world of adoption travel, flexibility is key and preparation is just about everything else: Choose scrupulous agencies, sharpen skills of consumerism, learn about host countries and listen to the words of wisdom of those who have gone before. at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-10862632.htm What to do while traveling at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-54266878.htm Never underestimate the power of word of mouth. Here, parents and adoption specialists pass on their more valuable nuggets about international adoption travel: "Ask agencies what kind of services are provided. It needs to be absolutely transparent, itemized and broken down, and you should be able to identify what those costs are. Are you audited every year? What’s your mission statement? When we travel, what kind of support will we have? Will we have training ahead of time? Will we be traveling alone or with a group of other parents? Do you have your own medical staff in that country?" — Susan Cox, Holt International Children’s Services "It turned out to be a good thing to be paired up with other adoptive parents [traveling to pick up their children]. Play off their good points. Ours was a schoolteacher. She helped us get through airports, et cetera, and plus she knew how to help us with the children. Being an accountant, I could tell when someone was being overcharged or something like that." — John Suttora, adoptive parent (Kazakhstan) "Make sure you’re up to date on hepatitis and tetanus shots, if you need them, which take some time. They’re a series of shots. We basically started them when we started the adoption process. I always carried my vaccination records in my travel documents, clipped to the back of my passport." — Antonia Siebert, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "I always recommend people get some sort of [medical-evacuation] insurance, especially traveling to a Third World country. It’s not expensive at all. You can find them online easily enough; SOS is one that comes to mind. When I was a Peace Corps volunteer, we all had it. You want to have an option." — Bill Strassberger, Immigration and Naturalization Service "Because it was my second time adopting, I knew that typically with Asian countries at least, the agency staff want to pick you up and take you to the orphanage right away when you arrive. The first time I did that, but I found that after a 33-hour trip I wanted a night’s sleep. I needed to get my bearings and my sea legs before I got my baby." — Kathy Rafferty, adoptive parent (Cambodia) "It’s really important not to drink the water. One family put hotel ice in their drink. They were so sick I don’t know how they made it home — they were the sickest I’ve ever seen anyone. You really have to drink bottled water and also use it for the baby’s bottles." — Bonnie Horowitz, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "A major bad thing that happened to us: When we were flying back, we put our video camera in our luggage. The video camera went missing, including the tape. The camera could be replaced, but the tape was all the video we’d taken [in the country], including his foster mom saying goodbye. It’s all gone. It still upsets me." — Antonia Siebert, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "You can never go back to that time, even if you go to the country every year. Keep a journal. The memories will become more precious as time goes by. Once you see your child, don’t ever wash the clothes they were in. Let those smells and essence always be." — Susan Cox, Holt International Children’s Services Are you seriously suggesting keeping dirty clothes from a third world country? The child may have a natural immunity to assorted "bugs" now, but you don’t, and after a few years the child’s immunity may be lost. If you must keep old clothes, at least make sure they are properly washed and maybe fumigated. The Black Death, in Britain, is said to have come into the country in old clothes. (It was carried by fleas that bite infected black rats and humans). After all, one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country, even if bought new. Geopelia I think it was pretty good advice, and we kept our kids clothes as were without any need to fumigate anything (the kids needed fumigating more than their clothes but that is another story). And what is the reason "one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country..?" Finally – I was puzzled by the addition of "… even if bought new." What other options are there? Used undies?
Washing underwear – the most important reason is that you don’t know if the people who have sewn and handled it, often in unhygenic conditions, have any skin diseases etc. But also I have found third world bras especially are full of some kind of material stiffening which needs washing out, or it is very scratchy. I wouldn’t buy Indonesian underwear again, the elastic is of very poor quality and soon needs replacing. (This is not the right newsgroup to talk about the "other options"!) Geopelia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Julia More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site: www.adoptioninstitute.org. The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Adoption odyessy In the world of adoption travel, flexibility is key and preparation is just about everything else: Choose scrupulous agencies, sharpen skills of consumerism, learn about host countries and listen to the words of wisdom of those who have gone before. at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-10862632.htm What to do while traveling at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-54266878.htm Never underestimate the power of word of mouth. Here, parents and adoption specialists pass on their more valuable nuggets about international adoption travel: "Ask agencies what kind of services are provided. It needs to be absolutely transparent, itemized and broken down, and you should be able to identify what those costs are. Are you audited every year? What’s your mission statement? When we travel, what kind of support will we have? Will we have training ahead of time? Will we be traveling alone or with a group of other parents? Do you have your own medical staff in that country?" — Susan Cox, Holt International Children’s Services "It turned out to be a good thing to be paired up with other adoptive parents [traveling to pick up their children]. Play off their good points. Ours was a schoolteacher. She helped us get through airports, et cetera, and plus she knew how to help us with the children. Being an accountant, I could tell when someone was being overcharged or something like that." — John Suttora, adoptive parent (Kazakhstan) "Make sure you’re up to date on hepatitis and tetanus shots, if you need them, which take some time. They’re a series of shots. We basically started them when we started the adoption process. I always carried my vaccination records in my travel documents, clipped to the back of my passport." — Antonia Siebert, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "I always recommend people get some sort of [medical-evacuation] insurance, especially traveling to a Third World country. It’s not expensive at all. You can find them online easily enough; SOS is one that comes to mind. When I was a Peace Corps volunteer, we all had it. You want to have an option." — Bill Strassberger, Immigration and Naturalization Service "Because it was my second time adopting, I knew that typically with Asian countries at least, the agency staff want to pick you up and take you to the orphanage right away when you arrive. The first time I did that, but I found that after a 33-hour trip I wanted a night’s sleep. I needed to get my bearings and my sea legs before I got my baby." — Kathy Rafferty, adoptive parent (Cambodia) "It’s really important not to drink the water. One family put hotel ice in their drink. They were so sick I don’t know how they made it home — they were the sickest I’ve ever seen anyone. You really have to drink bottled water and also use it for the baby’s bottles." — Bonnie Horowitz, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "A major bad thing that happened to us: When we were flying back, we put our video camera in our luggage. The video camera went missing, including the tape. The camera could be replaced, but the tape was all the video we’d taken [in the country], including his foster mom saying goodbye. It’s all gone. It still upsets me." — Antonia Siebert, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "You can never go back to that time, even if you go to the country every year. Keep a journal. The memories will become more precious as time goes by. Once you see your child, don’t ever wash the clothes they were in. Let those smells and essence always be." — Susan Cox, Holt International Children’s Services Are you seriously suggesting keeping dirty clothes from a third world country? The child may have a natural immunity to assorted "bugs" now, but you don’t, and after a few years the child’s immunity may be lost. If you must keep old clothes, at least make sure they are properly washed and maybe fumigated. The Black Death, in Britain, is said to have come into the country in old clothes. (It was carried by fleas that bite infected black rats and humans). After all, one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country, even if bought new. Geopelia
I think it was pretty good advice, and we kept our kids clothes as were without any need to fumigate anything (the kids needed fumigating more than their clothes but that is another story). And what is the reason "one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country..?" Finally – I was puzzled by the addition of "… even if bought new." What other options are there? Used undies? Julia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site: www.adoptioninstitute.org. The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
Are you seriously suggesting keeping dirty clothes from a third world country? The child may have a natural immunity to assorted "bugs" now, but you don’t, and after a few years the child’s immunity may be lost. If you must keep old clothes, at least make sure they are properly washed and maybe fumigated. The Black Death, in Britain, is said to have come into the country in old clothes. (It was carried by fleas that bite infected black rats and humans). After all, one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country, even if bought new. Geopelia
How much travel have you done to Third World countries? If the clothing has fleas, chances are the child will have fleas too. Should we leave her/him behind too? I’m happy to have the clothing my daughter was wearing when we met in China. Roberta mom to Juliette, 6, adopted 2/4/98 from China
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you seriously suggesting keeping dirty clothes from a third world country? The child may have a natural immunity to assorted "bugs" now, but you don’t, and after a few years the child’s immunity may be lost. If you must keep old clothes, at least make sure they are properly washed and maybe fumigated. The Black Death, in Britain, is said to have come into the country in old clothes. (It was carried by fleas that bite infected black rats and humans). After all, one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country, even if bought new. Geopelia How much travel have you done to Third World countries? If the clothing has fleas, chances are the child will have fleas too. Should we leave her/him behind too?
Of COURSE. We wouldn’t want to encourage the spread of those pesky *foreign* fleas, now would we? I’m happy to have the clothing my daughter was wearing when we met in
China. I should hope so! Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Roberta mom to Juliette, 6, adopted 2/4/98 from China
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Adoption odyessy In the world of adoption travel, flexibility is key and preparation is just about everything else: Choose scrupulous agencies, sharpen skills of consumerism, learn about host countries and listen to the words of wisdom of those who have gone before. at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-10862632.htm What to do while traveling at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-54266878.htm Never underestimate the power of word of mouth. Here, parents and adoption specialists pass on their more valuable nuggets about international adoption travel: "Ask agencies what kind of services are provided. It needs to be absolutely transparent, itemized and broken down, and you should be able to identify what those costs are. Are you audited every year? What’s your mission statement? When we travel, what kind of support will we have? Will we have training ahead of time? Will we be traveling alone or with a group of other parents? Do you have your own medical staff in that country?" — Susan Cox, Holt International Children’s Services "It turned out to be a good thing to be paired up with other adoptive parents [traveling to pick up their children]. Play off their good points. Ours was a schoolteacher. She helped us get through airports, et cetera, and plus she knew how to help us with the children. Being an accountant, I could tell when someone was being overcharged or something like that." — John Suttora, adoptive parent (Kazakhstan) "Make sure you’re up to date on hepatitis and tetanus shots, if you need them, which take some time. They’re a series of shots. We basically started them when we started the adoption process. I always carried my vaccination records in my travel documents, clipped to the back of my passport." — Antonia Siebert, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "I always recommend people get some sort of [medical-evacuation] insurance, especially traveling to a Third World country. It’s not expensive at all. You can find them online easily enough; SOS is one that comes to mind. When I was a Peace Corps volunteer, we all had it. You want to have an option." — Bill Strassberger, Immigration and Naturalization Service "Because it was my second time adopting, I knew that typically with Asian countries at least, the agency staff want to pick you up and take you to the orphanage right away when you arrive. The first time I did that, but I found that after a 33-hour trip I wanted a night’s sleep. I needed to get my bearings and my sea legs before I got my baby." — Kathy Rafferty, adoptive parent (Cambodia) "It’s really important not to drink the water. One family put hotel ice in their drink. They were so sick I don’t know how they made it home — they were the sickest I’ve ever seen anyone. You really have to drink bottled water and also use it for the baby’s bottles." — Bonnie Horowitz, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "A major bad thing that happened to us: When we were flying back, we put our video camera in our luggage. The video camera went missing, including the tape. The camera could be replaced, but the tape was all the video we’d taken [in the country], including his foster mom saying goodbye. It’s all gone. It still upsets me." — Antonia Siebert, adoptive parent (Guatemala) "You can never go back to that time, even if you go to the country every year. Keep a journal. The memories will become more precious as time goes by. Once you see your child, don’t ever wash the clothes they were in. Let those smells and essence always be." — Susan Cox, Holt International Children’s Services
Are you seriously suggesting keeping dirty clothes from a third world country? The child may have a natural immunity to assorted "bugs" now, but you don’t, and after a few years the child’s immunity may be lost. If you must keep old clothes, at least make sure they are properly washed and maybe fumigated. The Black Death, in Britain, is said to have come into the country in old clothes. (It was carried by fleas that bite infected black rats and humans). After all, one should always wash underwear before use if it comes from a third world country, even if bought new. Geopelia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More information at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-91551250.htm Books — "International Adoption Travel Journal," by Mary Ebejer Petertyl, Folio One Publishing, 2002. This book helps adoptive parents prepare a memento for their children by supplying spaces for itineraries, a daily travel journal, destinations and more. "Adoption Nation: How the Adoption Revolution is Transforming America," by Adam Pertman, 2000. This Book of the Year Award-winner provides insights into the pleasures and perils of adoption and includes a section on international adoption. Associations — Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, 120 Wall St., New York, NY 10005. Phone: 212/269-5080. Web site: www.adoptioninstitute.org. The institute is a national, nonprofit organization devoted to improving adoption policy and practices by improving the quality of information about adoption. National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, 330 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. 20447. Phone: 703/352-3488. Web site: www.calib.com/naic. This organization, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a comprehensive resource on all aspects of adoption. Online — AdoptionTravel.com, a for-profit site sponsored by Folio One Publishing, contains tips, travel articles, adoption links and travel resources for those embarking on an overseas trip for adoption. InternationalAdoption.org is a vast for-profit site with information and resources on topics such as immigration laws, adoption benefits and how to secure a home study.
Response:
Adoption odyessy In the world of adoption travel, flexibility is key and preparation is just about everything else: Choose scrupulous agencies, sharpen skills of consumerism, learn about host countries and listen to the words of wisdom of those who have gone before. at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-10862632.htm What to do while traveling at http://www.washtimes.com/familytimes/20021230-54266878.htm Never underestimate the power of word of mouth. Here, parents and adoption specialists pass on their more valuable nuggets about international adoption travel: "Ask agencies what kind of services are provided. It needs to be absolutely transparent, itemized and broken down, and you should be able to identify what those costs are. Are you audited every year? What’s your mission statement? When we travel, what kind of support will we have? Will we have training ahead of time? Will we be traveling alone or with a group of other parents? Do you have your own medical staff in that country?"
<<<< I’m not the one with the fetish for dead babies. I only have a desire to have newborns stay alive. <<< Do you channel Debi Faris? That depends on what channel my cordless phone is on, as I’ve spoken to her on it, and she is a wonderful person who is dedicated to helping save the lives of newborns. And she cries on cue, too–for camera and politicians. Ever ask her about her problems with the State of California?